In the summer no benefit really, in winter they will pre condition battery so will benefit there, how mu h no idea on the id4

 

The heat pump doesn’t precondition the battery on the id3….it is purely for the interior climate control. This is part of the misrepresentation of their figures originally. They were using day from cars that had no battery cooling or heating whereas all ID3 have battery management systems that include cooling and heating, it’s a separate system that heats the interior, it’s an interior Heat pump and that’s why it only produces savings in the 7 to 10% range.

 

Heat pumps in general are a great addition to an electric car….however , when VW originally put the marketing material out they were talking about Upto 30% Extra range in cold conditions with a heat pump….this came from research from early 2010’s , the reality has turned out to be around 7 to 10% . If it was like the KIa ENiro where it’s fitted at standard on the higher models then it’s a great addition, but at the original price of £1290 it was something you should only choose if maximum range was extremely important to you. It would take a long long time to recoup the money spent so really only for people that want max range. It’s now £1000 as VW dropped the price , offered refunds on the difference if anyone paid £1290. I went for the Tour instead , and a good preheat when plugged in to the house will make a big dent in the efficiency in cold weather .

 

In the U.K., no significant/real benefit to a heat pump IMHO.

An ID.3 without a heatpump still warms and cools the battery, so that’s a bit of a red herring.

I’ve run the same journeys in similar weather conditions/temps with cabin heat on and without. Nothing is more efficient than off, right?

At best, you’re probably looking at 10-20 miles extra range from a charge if you’re on a max range trip.

 

I considered the iD3 & the iD4, both were dismissed because of the lack of the heat pump, at the time, was a £1250 extra, I live in Northern Europe, a heat pump is an essential requirement, having owned several BEV's with and without heat pumps, I would never consider going without. The iD4 range, from full, was reduced by 75 miles worth of range during my testing. A Joules heater is not an efficient way to heat a car or a van for that matter.

It appears that almost all of the German built machines offer a heat pump as an 'optional extra' maybe in their world but not in mine. The dealers response 'we have not supplied any iD4's with the heat pump', prepare for lots of disappointed iD4 owners over the winter months!

 

I would never consider going without.

It all depends on what the heat pump is used for. My wife's ID3 has a heatpump and it seems to make no difference to the range, certainly not 75 miles. If it did precondition batteries and get them warmer quicker then that's fine, and if it only heats the cabin and you live in a minus 20 environment then that would be fine, but for the Uk? No, not worth it at all IMHO. It is marketing spin that has been completely discredited as a range extending system.

For example:

https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/volkswagen-refunds-id-3-and-id-4-owners-for-underperforming-heat-pump-cuts-price-for-option-in-new-cars/

 

Thanks all for your replies and input.

 

Studies showed, in march this year with the software available at that time, that there was up to a 10% improvement to range in temperatures below 5. Increasing as temperatures go lower.
VW said they would improve this in software.

It depends where you live. If in Inverness I would buy it, if in Bournemouth I wouldnt

 

Even at 10%, and I don’t believe it’s that high, it will take an awful long time to recoup the additional cost of the option.

If it makes the difference between having enough additional range to complete a journey without stopping, then maybe it makes sense to others, but you probably shouldn’t be running things that close on a regular basis anyway.

That’s the way I view it anyway, the pump should either be standard or a lot cheaper.

 

The Skoda Enyaq literature says "Heat Pump for battery" whatever that means.

 

I suspect something got lost in translation there.

 

Given the heat pump's a high pressure CO2 based system the long term ability to hold the gas and reliability of the pump is also a consideration, a bit of diagnosis and part replacement could add up to an expensive bill. I think I'd much rather put that £1000 toward a bigger battery. 10% extra range equates to an additional 5.8 kWh of battery which should cost less than £1000.

 

I have an ID3 Pro S with heat pump on order. I envisage doing a fair few winter long journeys (to central Germany for family and Aberdeen for similar reasons) so I want a car that offers maximum efficiency. I also feel a responsibility to ensure that happens for the life of the car. Personally I think it should be a standard item and it will probably become one in due course. I think 9% efficiency in winter over the life of the vehicle is a large number and of course, it will improve with software updates. The CO2 based system is also much more environmentally friendly so for me it was simple choice.

 

The north of Scotland and Germany are places which get cold enough in winter to probably justify a heat pump. I know they are standard on some EVs, but in warmer climates such as southern Europe it would be a waste. Making it optional makes more sense.

 

Lets say for one moment 10% is right, is the "10% improvement" a 10% reduction of the loss of range due to colder conditions or an actual 10% increase in range over the usual cold driving conditions?

e.g. Normal temps - 260 miles achieved, cold temps - 220 miles

Is it 10% of the 40 miles difference, so 4 miles improvement? Or an increase of 10% on the usual cold temp range of 220 miles, so 242 miles would be achieved?

 

It’s claimed to be the latter, although I still think it’s a bit on the optimistic side from the tests I’ve viewed. Maybe they will improve it with software, it was claimed VW were looking at it.

I did some experimentation last winter on the exact same 178 mile route and similar winter temps/conditions. I did some with HVAC on, same as I always drive, and then the same with HVAC off and relying on the heated seats and steering wheel, with maybe occasional blasts to clear the screen.

I barely got a 10% improvement with those admittedly unscientific experiments, and as the heat pump can’t be any more efficient than HVAC off (given everything else is the same on an ID.3 heat pump or no heat pump) that’s why I’m sceptical about the 10% range increase claim.

As far as I know, turning HVAC off doesn’t turn the battery heating/cooling off, you still get the same short distance cold weather efficiency hit with a heatpump or not.

Seems to be the colder the weather, the more the VW heat pump claims to help, traditional heat pumps struggle with efficiency in very low temps, something the VW implementation was supposed to improve upon.

I’ve done the sums, I can’t see how it pays for itself in energy saved over a typical ownership of the car, and I don’t fancy the extra complexity either.

 

Very interesting but I am wondering if we are losing some important detail in the translation!

We also have an e208 at home with a heat pump fitted as standard but this uses normal refrigerant rather than C02. There is some interesting input from a Peugeot tech spokesperson in an article from Ireland on how that heatpump works suggesting an ideal operating temp of 5 degrees C to 15 degrees C. Contrast that with the VW spokesperson in the same article saying the main efficiency gains for the VW heatpump are below 0 degrees C which is why is not a standard fit for temperate climates. Battery life on YouTube did a back to back test of ID3 with and without heatpump and found 9% range advantage at approx 5 degrees C so I do wonder how much the gain would be at say -5 or -10C. We seldom have daytime temperatures like that in the UK of course but we can get overnight temperatures that low.

Here is the link:

Redirect Notice

 

It's heavy and only has a single speed so your desire might be slightly optimistic. You'll get close but probably more like 200 miles.

 

You'll be fine with the bigger battery 😊

 

I have now done 9k miles in my 58kwh ID3 which I picked up last December.
I probably have only done 25% of that on motorways so my long term average is better than some around 4.0 kWh/mi.
I have achieved over 220 miles on a couple of mixed A road motorway winter runs, admittedly 2 to 6 degsC range.
That was being very careful, preheating the cabin plugged in first, using heating/aircon only when necessary mainly to demist , cruising at 67 mph.
The heating, aircon is pretty significant to efficiency if you can limit it using heated seats, heated wheel etc.