@Michelle C&C runs a fleet of taxi's using Leaf's I understand.
They have been rapid charged most of their lives and some are around 100,000 miles without problems.

Just to remind you what you are not using, look at this thread.

 

Very little to go wrong, very expensive if it does. Jury still out. Not enough data.

The highest mileage EVs you'll find in the ads are Amperas and Volts, but they are still in their 8 yr 100k warranty periods. Folks seem to have a mixed experience of losing bars in a Leaf. There's a poll on mynissanleaf of when people lose their first bars, and it is a consistent 'normal' distribution centred around 35k but a wide standard deviation with some up to 80k and still not lost a bar. This is from a country with wild temperature extremes.

YMMV - in fact, YM[Will]V!!

 

There's a poll on mynissanleaf of when people lose their first bars, and it is a consistent 'normal' distribution centred around 35k but a wide standard deviation with some up to 80k and still not lost a bar. This is from a country with wild temperature extremes.

My interpretation so far is in theory, (using the Leaf as an example) is that if you have a high annual mileage, say 20,000+ and you have bought a new or newish leaf with something like 5 years battery cover from Nissan, you should be okay for 5 years anyway. Beyond that am not so sure! The Nissan battery guarantee has to suit high mileage drivers more than the 7500 a year drivers?

 

This is the thread to look at

https://speakev.com/threads/test-drive-of-a-petrol-car.8293/#post-116999

 

I take the view that we are all guinea pigs. We took a gamble on our secondhand four year old c zero.

Like they said above. ...not much to go wrong but very expensive when it does and possibly a long wait for parts too.

For owners of the imiev/ion/C zero there's an android app (canion) that can in an use data from a bluetooth obd reader. Via that I've seen that our car's battery is in fine fettle, but you never know.

I'm interested in anyone claiming the highest mileage for their particular EV. Don't look at me....Ours has only done 16000 miles, and the last 4200 were done since we bought it 5 months ago.....

 

The Volt I drive has 125,000 miles on it, and my wife's has 25,000... they're both 2012 models. Hers has more of the niceties than mine... leather seats, back-up camera, etc. However, they both drive exactly the same, and I've had zero problems with both of them other than flat tires when we run-over nails and screwdrivers... oh, and I had to replace a headlight bulb. That said, your experience could be completely different than mine. And, admittedly, I did intentionally buy my wife's so that it would still be covered by some warranty... just in-case.

 

Well we know the Prius is reliable up to 200,000 miles (hence all the Prius) Taxis. With full EVs it's the battery life that's the 'worry', but by all accounts batteries are lasting much better/longer than predicted (Gen 2 Leafs anyways).

EV or ICE all cars still deprecate. A Leaf at 100k would be as 'worthless' on the second market as a 100k Ford Fiesta.

It seems like people have a mental barriers to cars at 100k. Our last ICE Honda Civic had 90K on if when we sold it. It has NO mechanical faults in 90k, aside from replacing the clutch (quite expensive on the Civic), I'm confident it would have hit 180k with no issues.

What petrol car did you have that started getting problems at 50k?? Was it a German brand by any chance My old BMW had horrendous reliability comapred to all my previous Japanese cars.

 

A Leaf at 100k would be as 'worthless' on the second market as a 100k Ford Fiesta.

I disagree as any EV still fully functional at 100k will be valued according to the equivalent fuel savings it can offer, rather than its innate value.

A 100k 10yr old Fiesta, probably 2/3rd through its full life, is essentially worthless and there is a, say, £1000 per year liability that comes with it (fuel+tax).

A 100k 10 yr old EV might also be considered worthless and if it is also considered to have 5 more years then it is worth £5000 by comparison due to the lack of the fuel liability.

I think EVs will settle out at around £5k for an EV 'banger' that is not carrying major faults.

 

The biggest questions for long term EV owners have to be:

1. Is my battery pack replaceable
2. How much will it cost to replace

Essentially, the battery pack has become the new major consumable component in the powertrain, replacing the ICE engine - and associated components - as the piece of the puzzle that may hit you in the pocket eventually.

Until we have a precedent set which will allow us to reliably forecast these costs. estimating is going to be difficult. Which is why a lot of people lease; 2-3 years later you hand the car back, and it becomes someone else's concern.

That said, I highly doubt 100k+ EVs will become the same money pits as the equivalent ICE cars (except for gen 1 Leaf parking brake faults).

 

I have a fifty-year-old car in my garage that I bought twenty years ago, its worth more today than I paid for it, with the likelihood that the government are going to get pulled over the coals with regards vehicle emissions together with battery technology improving, buying a secondhand leaf might be a canny future investment!

 

Done right a high miles second hand eV will have paid it's purchase cost with fuel and road tax savings over the ice car it replaced. Looking at it this way when it hits 100k even if it's worth £100 it would have cost you nothing compared to and ice car. Our monthly loan payments for our 2nd Volt which cost £17k last Year are about equal to the fuel and road tax monthly costs of the BMW 320i it replaced.

 

I'd snap up a leaf at £5k rip out the guts and stick them in a kit car.

 

I hope you've done the math on your mileage and worked into it inconvenience. 30k a year is 80+ miles every single day. Assuming that alone means a full charge will be needed every night. But If you do a lot of days over 100miles then you might find driving slow to get the range or charging part trip every day a bit of a chore.

Seeing as there are less moving parts under the bonnet you'd think an EV should last a lot longer. That said most of the bits that wear out are common with ICE. Exhaust is the only bit you'll save on. Suspension, brakes, tyres will last no longer than in an ICE (ok pads might if you use regen and good anticipation).

 

What? Most costly ice issues are engine / drivetrain related that you don't get with EV. Turbo, clutch, duel mass flywheel, head gasket, cam belt, water pump, high pressure fuel rail, fuel injectors, syncomesh gearbox, auto gearbox, dpf, cat, duel clutch failure, etc, etc. The closer you get to 100k the more likely you are to cop a £1k+ bill for one or more of these faults.

Even very complex EV drive trains like the GM Voltec system with its engine and complex planetary gearbox joining the ice to the electric motors are so far proving far superior in reliability over 100k miles than ICE cars still running on 20th Century designs. Even modern duel clutch autos are proving to have a costly level of failure rate which makes out of warranty purchases 2nd hand a big gamble.

 

I can see in the next few years alot more companies will be popping up specialising in EV drive conversions and repairs etc.

I agree with the above comments that EVs will get to a point (£2500-5000) and will hold its value as the components will be reusable and ideal for conversions or grid storage etc.

 

I agree with the above comments that EVs will get to a point (£2500-5000) and will hold its value as the components will be reusable and ideal for conversions or grid storage etc.

I agree. Old Prius hold their value really well (apart from ropey grey imports), with super high mileage examples in mid £2k's for a 10 year old one. I think EVs will be the same. The very motorists who want to, or perhaps need to save money on running costs are the ones who can't quite afford the £15k price tag. Once the cars are down to £4k/£5k, they'll be in high demand.

 

The difference with an ICE is you choose where to have it repaired when it's old. I did most of the repair work on my old Stilo and stuff like clutch I trusted to the wee independent along the road who charged button is hourly rate.

You buy a Zoe and your pretty much forced to go to Renault, same for Leaf you'll be forced with Nissan because they are the only places with the knowledge.

 

Only if the eV drivetrain stuff fails. Rex engine oil changes, brakepads and suspension stuff can be done anywhere, especially once out of warranty. Also won't take long for Renault / BMW etc trained eV specialists to leave and set up their own specialist outlets. Unless eV are to reliable so not enough business, then the dealer only option is not a worry either!

 

For the last 35 years I have always brought new, and run into the ground. When I buy a car I do a mental calculation based on expected length of ownership and mileage plus expected costs. I normally sell at around £500. My rule of thumb is once the repair will exceed that value of the car it goes.
My LEAF is new territory, the big unknown is the battery, the running gear is mostly the same as a conventional car and so is predictable. Electric drive is a known factor from Industry use. The body shell, seats, tyres, etc are all known factors. The ONLY unknown is the life expectancy of the battery, BUT, with a replacement battery pack at around £5k even that cost can be factored in.
Once the BEV becomes more common the price will level off based on the utility of the vehicle not fears of the 'magic' of electric cars. It will be overall condition that governs the selling price.

 

... the running gear is mostly the same as a conventional car and so is predictable. Electric drive is a known factor from Industry use.......

This is not really the 'truth'. Motors are designed to deliver specific performance, and are re-designed each time, application-specific. What the weak-points of the motor are is something found out over time. Yes, there is a body of knowledge how to build motors right, but there are always gotcha's.

There are a few motor designs for EVs out there that have failed the test of reality on the road. One of the issues is that industrial motors aren't bolted into a chassis and bounced along a road in the freezing cold. They tend to only suffer self-induced vibration issues and held at a steady ambient, whereas road vehicles overlay onto those stresses the additional stresses of pot holes and temperature extremes. EV motors also have to be designed to deliver across a wider range of operating speeds, and to do it silently. (Have you heard industrial motors start up?)

The drive electronics is also very problematic. Industrial motor controllers are swapped out on a routine basis, so that in effect reliability is high because they are anticipated to fail (doesn't apply to direct AC motors of course, but these aren't variable speed). Not that they necessarily are prone to failure, but again once you stick it in a car bouncing through pot holes at temperature extremes, then additionally you have to package it up all neatly so it then becomes a 2 day job to pull the inverter out rather than 30 mins unplugging a wall mounted industrial motor drive unit.

So in summary .... not really! EV motors and drive electronics are also at an evolutionary/development crux too.

 

How would this example compare with an EV? In 3 years we will be about 80,000 - 90,000 miles on our Nissan Leaf. Will it cost us a lot with servicing, parts replacement and repairs? Will there likely be battery issues and costs? What might be the typical issues. In theory will it still be a good car to run as a main car or at least a run about?

In about three or four days we will have a 100,000 mile LEAF.

We don't think private cars are driven as hard as taxis in our experience. Our LEAF so far has had a pollen filter, brake fluid change, new wiper blades and lots of tyres. As yet no brake pads front or rear. Tyres last longer on a LEAF compared to ICE cars. No mechanical issues what so ever.

 

In about three or four days we will have a 100,000 mile LEAF.

We don't think private cars are driven as hard as taxis in our experience. Our LEAF so far has had a pollen filter, brake fluid change, new wiper blades and lots of tyres. As yet no brake pads front or rear. Tyres last longer on a LEAF compared to ICE cars. No mechanical issues what so ever.

If that is all that has been done since new, "0" miles, then that is amazingly cheap motoring even including servicing costs which i guess are cheaper on a Nissan EV than a Nissan ICE? The Volt / Ampera services are much cheaper than a GM ICE service.

My Honda Civic Diesel has just got to 50k miles and needs new front discs and pads. The wifes Volt is near 22k now and the discs and pads look brand new!!

As a business Michelle these lower running costs must really help the bottom line, you can undercut the competition (if any?) and still make higher margins.

Awsome. No pure EV taxis in my town but Toyota Prius are very popular as Taxis.

M

 

What capacity bars/levels is that car at? Or is it secret to you and Nissan?

It would be really interesting to know as to most people 100k on an average car is a useful life and after that anything is a bonus. If a Leaf still has any useful life in it at that mileage then Nissan have a winner.

 

I forgot to mention the 1650 rapid charges and the 7120 L2 charges and we still have all 12 battery bars showing.

 

All 12? At 95k+ miles?

Why are there some cars for sale with 45k with a missing bar? Or is the difference between gen1 and gen2 Leaf battery tech that wide?

 

The car is busy working but when it hits the 100,000 we will post a screen grab for you, it's no secret we want to help EV'ers.

 

Please do post a screenshot, when ever I try and promote the advantage of EVs I still get doubters bring out 'battery packs will explode/become useless after 10,000 miles'....a Leaf on 100,000 still getting 95% charge should shut them up....Though no doubt they will find something else pick up on

 

The car is on 99,200 will all 12.

 

Are you making this one work harder than the rest too?

 

With Tesla now selling 10kwh home batteries for $3500, I can see how there will be a decent market for used EV batteries...

If EVs do manage to get people away from the obssions with changing cars every 2-3 years for no good reason, that would be a major step in reducing overall 'waste' we produce here in the first world.

Even though a Tesla is expensive at £55k, if your keep it for 10-15-20 years, take into account fuel savings and all of a sudden the numbers start to look very attractive!!

 

It does seem strange that the Japanese LEAFs delivered to the UK aren't performing as well as the UK LEAF's.

Maybe it's down to storage of the car. I.e producing the battery and shipping it over to the UK. How long before the car actually gets used from the time it was produced.

The UK ones roll off the Sunderland production line and within a week or two it's being used daily.

Some of the 2013 Japanese LEAFs that were being sold off has build dates of 2011 etc.

 

It does seem strange that the Japanese LEAFs delivered to the UK aren't performing as well as the UK LEAF's

It's just down to different battery chemistry. Simples

 

You buy a Zoe and your pretty much forced to go to Renault, same for Leaf you'll be forced with Nissan because they are the only places with that might possibly have the knowledge.

FTFY

 

This is an old thread resurrected, but it's interesting to look back 3 years and see what was said - and I'd still agree with it!

FWIW my Ampera's now at 80k miles, and lifetime agro's been small for the last 5 years I've owned it. At the mo' I'm getting new CVs for it, as starting to weep grease, but that's the same as for any ICE.

Electrically I've got through one granny EVSE in 5 years, replaced with same model for next 5 years of so, and I'm going to get a 2nd hand charger-controller as the death of the pEVSE slightly upset this item. So that'll be $90 + import from USA + dealer-program-it. Just after I got it, the charge-connector on car short-circuitted with blew up the charger good & proper, but that was an 8-year warranty repair job and cost me now't. So with Evs there's always the risk of something expensive happening, but the likelyhood of this is surely far lower then the near-certainty of ICE gearbox/clutch/catalysts/DPFs/ etc wearing out and becomming uneconomic to repair.

 

Zombie thread. resurrected by a spammer. Lock 🔐🔐

OP banned a long time ago...