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Is car weight based road tax the answer?

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2K views 33 replies 18 participants last post by  donald  
#1 ·
#2 ·
I had a problem with my speedo binnacle, one of the green SM LEDs failed, bought a replacement binnacle off EBay, fitted it and mileage jumped over 80K, still trying to wind it back but as its classed as clocking it's not easy to find someone to do it, probably have to buy the programmer and do it myself.
 
#11 · (Edited)
The unladen weight for an EV doesn’t include the weight of the battery so EV's will be lighter than their FF counterparts in many cases.

Of course, they can change things but if they include the full weight of the batteries then they should include a full tank of ICE juice.

Next they'll be having us weigh ourselves, passengers and luggage then submitting monthly reports saying how far we dragged what weights around the country.

Gaz
 
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#4 ·
If motorbikes are charged in proportion (1/10th of weight = 1/10th VED) , works for me!

£2 per 10kg of road vehicle (it'd be about that to be equivalent). Cars, vans, motorbikes, trucks, sounds fine to me. Easy to work out, all vehicles have a weight-in-service category already listed on the V5.

The post 2001 VED was 'designed' to encourage fuel efficient vehicles. Now with BEVs, that is pretty much a function of mass because almost all BEVs are at very similar energy efficiencies (unlike ICE).

Incentivising lower mass vehicles is good for road maintenance, good for energy efficiency, and all those 'collapsing car parks' might be mitigated ... :unsure: .... maybe not the last one ...

Not forgetting that lighter cars are usually smaller cars, and we need to see that encouraged. These 5.4m x 2m cars are just too big for UK parking spaces.
 
#6 ·
That BMW R12 is getting even closer to my garage, its getting serious, BMW North Oxford is now on my list of prohibited locations, my debit card is loaded so I am living in very dangerous territory.
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#5 ·
I have a few questions on this proposal and I bet that you will have a few more. At first sight, it's woolly thinking at best.

Labour could introduce weight-based taxes for vehicles to end environmental ‘confusion’
You mean like this?
Essentislly it relates to the one off tax you pay when buying new as we have no annual road tax or VED.

Also Paris charges more for parking dependent on size though I have never seen what that actually means in practice maybe should look next time I pass a Parisien parking meter.

What I do know is that a lot of the underground parking infrastructure is hopelessly unsuited to bigger cars and is a reason I would like a slightly smaller one than I have albeit it is very manoeuvrable with the rear wheel steering probably better than some smaller cars it’s track width can be an issue.

 
#8 ·
What I do know is that a lot of the underground parking infrastructure is hopelessly unsuited to bigger cars and is a reason I would like a slightly smaller one than I have albeit it is very manoeuvrable with the rear wheel steering probably better than some smaller cars it’s track width can be an issue.

links back to the posts on cars being too wide https://www.speakev.com/threads/mor.../threads/more-than-150-car-models-too-big-for-regular-uk-parking-spaces.179716/
We also need to change the craze for SUV’s. I vaguely recall an article wherein it was stated that emissions would be 30% lower if SUV’s hadn’t boomed.

Personally, I hope my next car is narrow and efficient, yet comfortable for a tall person, and has a range that will allow me and my partner to continue holidaying in Scotland without too much stress, though that’s a problem largely due to infrastructure and maintenanc.
 
#7 ·
@Hitstirrer This is from Nov 2024 and I don't see any reviews of their new book on Amazon. Maybe nobody has bought a copy? (Genuine question)

In other words, they know that a lot of those who are wealthy enough to afford to lease/finance/buy a larger than average car will most likely absorb extra car tax, and hence, it's a way for the Treasury to keep or increase car tax revenues. How many people currently in a 2.5 ton luxury SUV are going to switch to a 1.5 ton city car to save a few quid each year? Costs like depreciation and insurance are likely to be way more than this new car tax.

How many people are going to drive less each year and take the bus instead, walk or even cycle under this new proposal? Probably those on lower incomes.

"However, Molden and Leach argue that there is a solution that is better for the environment, and simpler to administer and understand.

Molden explained: 'Taxing a car on a combination of its weight and mileage offers a simple, potentially universal approach to pricing-in the environmental impact of cars while at the same time overcoming the objections to the current mishmash of incentives and penalties.'

The pair will be launching a new book - Critical Mass: The One Thing You Need to Know About Green Cars - later this month, which outlines the new car tax proposals.

Molden continued: 'In our book, we offer an intuitive proof of why mass and distance are fundamental to designing a system to incentivise the purchase of ever-greener cars and this is contrasted with other flawed bases for judging environmental impact, such as measures of vehicle efficiency, including energy and fuel efficiency, as well as elements incorporated in the current system such as fuel type and laboratory carbon dioxide emissions.'

The pair outline ways in which the system can be adopted and show the types of cars likely to taxed lightly and those that will be more expensive to keep on the road.

Broadly, smaller cars will be cheaper to tax.

Under Molden and Leach’s proposed system (taking the example of the UK), if an average car is 150kg lighter or does 1,000 fewer miles, the owner/operator would pay £100 less per year.

'Specific tax rates are proposed and compared to existing taxes to illustrate winners and losers – winners being small city cars and loser including high-mileage heavy cars and SUVs,' said Leach.

'The concept proposed is a reliable revenue-raiser at a time of widespread fiscal pressure and declining vehicle taxation. It could also be adopted rapidly and transitioning to it is easy.'

Molden added that deploying a single measure of a car’s environmental credentials to guide purchases and Government policy is the way forward, and the measure that takes account of approximately three-quarters of the environmental impact of a car is the car’s weight, and that metric correlates well with environmental damage.

He concluded: 'Most people want to do the right thing environmentally when they are buying a car, but the information and choices are now too complex for any normal consumer to understand fully.

'The question was whether there is a simple, practical way to point the car buyer in the right environmental direction and allow governments to tax and subsidise the right things – and there is.'"
 
#10 ·
You are correct it is not ongoing but it is a tax that already exists and pushes people like the same punitive tax on emissions to buy smaller. It currently excludes BEV but am sure it will apply eventually.
A large big engined ICE SUV like a range rover could pay a huge amount in a one off tax for emissions up to 60,000 euros and then if it only weighed 1950kg another 4750 euros for the weight but it will be heavier no doubt and every kilo over 2000 a tax of 30 euro is applied so If it was a 2 .5 ton car the tax would be 19750 euro it attracts these are eye watering tax levels and will put off the vast majority apart from the ultra wealthy.
 
#12 ·
In the UK if you look at your V5C you will usually see weight is stated 3 times.
  • [Y]: Revenue Weight
  • F.1: Max permissible mass (exc. m/c)
  • G: Mass in service
Effectively [Y] and F.1 are the same number. And G is the lower number

Taking my MY25 Kia EV6 as an example, the values are stated as 2495 KG GROSS, 2495, and 2060 respectively.

Given [Y] has the term 'revenue' in its definition, it would seem the likely candidate upon which any taxation of vehicle weight would be based.
It is the maximum weight the vehicle can achieve staying within the manufacturers' specifications. i.e. not overladen by a stupid owner.

Whatever the definition of those 3 weight attributes, they will have been standardised by DVLA etc to take into account the variations of ICE vs BEV for example. It is not clear how they could be classified as 'fair' as I would have to assume these values come from the manufacturer and not some independent assessment. As such, I am putting some faith in the systems that this is done in a consistent and regulated way to ensure no one is under-or-overstating values.
 
owns 2025 Kia EV6 GT-Line S
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#17 ·
Its lorries and busses that tear up the substandard road surface...
This is yet another excuse to rape the motorist :mad:

None of the road tax goes into roads anyway.
Vehicle excise duty goes into the general taxation pot. About half of the receipts are spent on roads. You’re quite right about buses and lorries though.
 
#18 ·
Metrics driver behaviours and (particularly for those that target UK market) what would manufacturers start doing to reduce weight to meet certain tax bands?

before making weight reduction obvious with items being removed/replaced… they’d opt to substitute lighter materials in places you can’t see/judge.
 
#19 ·
Metrics driver behaviours and (particularly for those that target UK market) what would manufacturers start doing to reduce weight to meet certain tax bands?
Make the cars smaller.