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Long distance fully electric trips

6.1K views 50 replies 22 participants last post by  Siraff  
#1 ·
Hi there

Could anybody provide advice on a situation I find myself in please?

I’m going to be driving a 270 mile journey from Helston in cornwall to Oldbury in the West Midlands and back once a week.

I’m researching appropriate fully electric cars to eliminate fuel charge and also the charging network and time to charge on the journey as I know that no cars will make the trip in one go.

Does anybody have experience of a similar regular trip and have advice on a suitable car please?

Many thanks

Pat
 
#3 ·
I’m researching appropriate fully electric cars to eliminate fuel charge and also the charging network
As above, Tesla Model S and X are the only EVs you can buy now that will do what you want.


Jaguar i-Pace might be able to do it on a single charge. It will make it if you can charge at the destination. Car is due 2nd half of 2018.

Tesla Model 3 Long Range will be able to do it. Be prepared for a very long wait if you order one today.

The facelift LEAF 40 due here in January should be able to make it with charging at the destination but will not be able to make the round trip. Nissan are promising a longer range option within a year. Not a lot of details yet, but I doubt even that one will make 270 miles year round without a recharge.

i3 94ah, Zoe Z.E. 40 and Hyundai Ionic might be able to do it with charging at the destination. None will make the round trip without charging.

Hyundai say a longer range Ionic is on the way. No details yet. One to watch.




I-PACE | Electric Sports Car | Jaguar
 
#5 ·
Hi there

Could anybody provide advice on a situation I find myself in please?

I’m going to be driving a 270 mile journey from Helston in cornwall to Oldbury in the West Midlands and back once a week.

I’m researching appropriate fully electric cars to eliminate fuel charge and also the charging network and time to charge on the journey as I know that no cars will make the trip in one go.

Does anybody have experience of a similar regular trip and have advice on a suitable car please?

Many thanks

Pat
You're clearly thinking about current 'reasonably priced' EVs and are anticipating charging en route. (I am presuming you will get a full charge at your destination one way or another?)

I am also interested in making these sorts of plans myself as I hope to be in receipt of my 30kWh Soul, once off its slow-boat-from-China, so this sort of thing is 'practice' for that battery capacity. So I am looking at zapmap now.

Applying Donald's rule-of-thumb to these trips, the shortest time is always the minimum number of stops, regardless of how slow you have to go to achieve that. Assuming 4.5kWh is possible most of the year then you need 60kWh. If you had, or waited, for a 40kWh car (current Zoe or coming Leaf) you could do this with one charge, say at Michalewood services. With 30kWh you can't charge 100% en route so it would be two charges. Exeter, Cullompten and Tiverton are clustered around your 1st stop northbound, so you could try stretching there, then a 20kWh charge is needed to get to Gloucester services, and then you can get to your destination.

If winter were to hammer you to 3.5mi/kWh then you would need 80kWh, so you can see also the 2 stop strategy for 40kWh but now 3 stops for 30kWh, unless you can time it so perfectly that you get 30+25+25. Sounds too risky to me so you end up with 3 stops in deep winter.

I've yet to find out exactly how far the Soul will go in winter, but one way or another if you can pick a speed that keeps you to under 70kWh total, i.e. 3.8mi/kWh, which I think should be possible, then you can stick to the 2 stop 30+20+20 solution, which would still require precision-distance timing to the stops at the right moment.

Think in terms of the total energy you need, then you can work back to the number of stops.

Your trip back is far more problematic. The last run from Exeter to Helston is 110 miles and you basically need a full charge. I can see some rapids on A30 that are not EH you would have to either get familiar with those or sit for longer at Exeter, as the charge rate slows down as you get higher SoC. This is why it is not a bad idea to charge towards the end of your battery charge so that when you do plug in you get the fastest rate possible.
 
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#6 ·
I would have no qualms about that in my i3 94ah Rex but you are going to have to stop to refuel or recharge twice or one of each. I would leave and drive to Sedgemoor Services on M5 at about 60mph and fast charge while hitting caffeine (in summer you might just get there without using fuel). Then back on battery until you can switch Rex on manually, empty the fuel tank then back on battery until Oldbury.

You would need to have a means of charging at Oldbury ideally to set off fully refuelled again. These are the trials of long distance driving in an EV with limited range and in my experience, you will find that the charger you choose is either not working, ICEd or in use so you need to factor in that annoyance / delay. Personally I wouldn't use it for work in that way as reliability of charging and journey time is an issue. Once a week commute maybe.

If you can afford a monstrous battery like a Model S or X go for it but otherwise I'd be wondering if EV was for me just yet with that regular drive.
 
#7 ·
Hi I'm in Wadebridge and travel to Telford often in a 24kWh gen 2 LEAF (cost around £8-9k)
That's 3 charge stops of 20-45 mins each, weather and battery temp depending and sitting at 60-65 close to a truck or coach for aero advantage. Spending £15k gets you into a 30kwh LEAF, that would be 2x 20-30mins ( they charge faster). Spending £17-20k gets you in a new 40kwh Zoe and expect 1 x 45 min charge. Hyundai don't really exist, so don't bother ordering one of them ;=)
So just depends of how much time / money you have. Tesla 90S £50k and no stops.
 
#8 ·
This is why I am buggered if I am making long distance trips in the Ioniq. I refuse to putter along at 10 mph below the speed limit (when I'm not in a traffic jam). I'm not ready to wear a hat when driving just yet! Neither do I want to tailgate lorries.

As an aside, my journey to work today, normally 4.3 - 4.6 depending on conditions and weight of leaden foot, was 3.8, (partly because the bloody back bloody screen had a load of bloody moisture on the bloody inside necessitating the rear heater on the whole journey). I tried preconditioning the other day and either it didn't work or it was so warm I couldn't tell if it had worked. There's no Ioniq App to discover this. No doubt the results are hidden deep in some menu on the display.

I'm obviously not suited to EV parsimony driving, even in the slippery Ioniq. I need a distant, unknown and uncared for relative to die and leave me their vast estate so I can go to Tesla...
 
#9 ·
Hi there

Could anybody provide advice on a situation I find myself in please?

I’m going to be driving a 270 mile journey from Helston in cornwall to Oldbury in the West Midlands and back once a week.

I’m researching appropriate fully electric cars to eliminate fuel charge and also the charging network and time to charge on the journey as I know that no cars will make the trip in one go.

Does anybody have experience of a similar regular trip and have advice on a suitable car please?

Many thanks

Pat
OK so this is a 540 mile roundtrip - it's 270 miles each way.

Whether or not you can recharge the car at your destination then becomes quite important.

But in any case if you're doing this trip once a week I'd say the only suitable electric cars are the Tesla Model S and Model X.

But that's fine - get a Tesla. I don't know what your budget is but second hand 85kWh cars are now changing hands starting from £40k which is about the same price as a brand new i3 Rex with a few options. Your route will take you straight past at least 4 superchargers (Lifton, Exeter, Gordano, Michaelwood).
 
#11 ·
This is why I am buggered if I am making long distance trips in the Ioniq. I refuse to putter along at 10 mph below the speed limit (when I'm not in a traffic jam). I'm not ready to wear a hat when driving just yet! Neither do I want to tailgate lorries.

As an aside, my journey to work today, normally 4.3 - 4.6 depending on conditions and weight of leaden foot, was 3.8, (partly because the bloody back bloody screen had a load of bloody moisture on the bloody inside necessitating the rear heater on the whole journey). I tried preconditioning the other day and either it didn't work or it was so warm I couldn't tell if it had worked. There's no Ioniq App to discover this. No doubt the results are hidden deep in some menu on the display.

I'm obviously not suited to EV parsimony driving, even in the slippery Ioniq. I need a distant, unknown and uncared for relative to die and leave me their vast estate so I can go to Tesla...
You're not very suited to trying to keep your consumption of world resources to a reasonable level then either?

What will happen if that is people's attitude is the speed limit will be dropped by 10mph and then you can stick to the speed limit....... simple fix!! ;)

I was talking with a German chap the other day who had tried a Tesla and said it was no good because of the limited range at 200kph. Said he had to keep stopping to charge, I pointed out that if he stuck to, say, 130kph (!!), he'd not need to charge at all and he'd get to his destination quicker, and he looked at me like I had just landed from another planet.

You're really just saying the same thing, but replacing the speed and model name in that conversation.

Just ease off! You get there quicker because you stop less! It's not rocket science!
 
#13 · (Edited)
I have no issue doing long trips in non Tesla and have done some roughly every month to 6 weeks just allowing extra time and quite enjoy it. But doing a long trip every week is not something I would consider. It would become very tiresome I imagine. Living in Cornwall and that weekly trip I would go for a plugin of some kind. The local stuff will still be electric and wait a couple of years for either longer range cheapish EV or maybe things change and you dont need to do that long trip every week. Good luck.
 
#14 ·
I can't believe no one's mentioned an Ampera (unless I missed it?). That or an i3 rex would be the obvious ones for me.
Most short range ev's doing that run will hit you in the wallet and the journey time. The Ampera will do it in one go easily. The i3 rex (94ah) would need a couple of minute stop to top the tank up.
Either could take on more electricity anytime there is a convenient charger should you have a spare half hour.
The i3 is as good as most short range ev's with a get out clause. The Ampera is as good as any ice with reasonable ev ability.
A 24kWh Leaf would be a complete pain in the bum on that run. It can be done but it would add a couple of hours each way and £24 (first 70 miles from home then 4 half hour charges at 50 miles each). Even a relatively large diesel like a Mondeo/similar will only cost about £45 (less that £40 in an efficient one) all in so £48 of charging plus home and destination charging makes it a bit of a kick.
The Ampera would be around £46 plus home and destination, The i3 rex £34 plus both with no on road charging for either or £24 plus both if charging both ways.
 
#16 ·
... and in my experience, you will find that the charger you choose is either not working, ICEd or in use so you need to factor in that annoyance / delay...
Not only is there a good choice of chargers you could use, but my experience is that they are almost invariably working and very rarely occupied by other vehicles. Not sure where you get your defeatist attitude from, but maybe I'm just driving at different times of day.
 
#19 ·
I'd have to second the comments above, unfortunately the only workable option for a weekly trip of this type is a Tesla Model S or X and even then you'll need a charge each way unless you're prepared to drive well below the speed limit an hypermile - even then you'll still need one charge. I'm doing a weekly 320 mile round trip at the moment in a MS 90D which is possible with just one stop driving normally (but not very aggressively) at the speed limits. It takes slightly less time than it did in my Prius, I suspect because I'm accelerating up to speed much quicker and have the performance to overtake safely on the single carriageway bits of my journey and I used stop anyway for a break after a couple of hours. One stop each way at a Supercharger location while getting a coffee and a toilet break would work.

Every other BEV option is going to take a lot longer because of more charging stops and slower charging almost certainly making them impractical for business travel unfortunately.

If the budget isn't there for a Tesla then I think you're down to plug-in hybrid options - unfortunately GM didn't bring the Volt 2 to Europe, otherwise that would be a good choice - Prius plug in, Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in or 94Ah i3REX would seem to be the next options but would certainly involve burning dino juice.
 
#21 ·
The outlander you have is probably the best tool for the job at the moment. Set off fully charged. If there is a cheap charger you can use on the way then that would also save a bit on fuel and get the average up. Using an ecotricity rapid with the £3 connection fee wouldn't be economic. If you are with ecotricity then it probably would be. You could then try doing a 2 stop run and seeing how annoying is for you. This way you can find out whether stopping ever so often for 20 minutes is ok or a total pain in the butt. No risk of being flat bedded and if the charger is occupied you can always just go to another or not bother.
 
#22 ·
Not only is there a good choice of chargers you could use, but my experience is that they are almost invariably working and very rarely occupied by other vehicles. Not sure where you get your defeatist attitude from, but maybe I'm just driving at different times of day.
From the four long trips I've made between South Wales up the M5 / M6 / M42 all of which have resulted in me either having to move on, wait for a charger or fail to charge due to broken / offline hardware.

Now far be it from me to suggest that only four trips is statistically sound as a sample size but 100% failure rate so far is not a good start and I would suggest does not qualify me for being unreasonably defeatist. However, I haven't been defeated, I've driven my i3 17k last year and intend to continue driving electric.

My point was, it isn't in any way 100% reliable.
 
#23 ·
540 mile round trip!
I would use a petrol car until a better EV option came along.
The novelty of charging an EV on wet winter days will soon wear off.
An EV makes no sense if you are doing it every week.
Spot on. It's all very well being very pro EV but this is a clear case of selecting the right tool for the job. It may well be possible to knock a nail in with a saw but it would be a very frustrating experience. A trip like the one described is possible in an EV in the same way - but would be equally frustrating. Select a hammer for that nail and a long legged ICE for that trip.
 
#24 ·
I would also add in is this an only car or one which will only do this journey/other long ones? If so I really would be looking at a reasonably modern diesel. Mondeo's and Insignias (and their ilk) are known as good repmobiles for a reason. They will happily sit on a motorway loping along in a very relaxed way while using very little fuel to do it.
If it's mostly to use around town with this being the only long run I would still say an Ampera or i3 rex - less so the i3 because it gets a bit noisy on a motorway.
 
#33 ·
Apart from the impact on jobs and tax the most effective environmental solution would be to forbid long distance HGV traffic and move goods by rail into distribution centres where 7.5T electric trucks could easily run that last mile. Such goods trains could run overnight hub to hub using standard shipping containers. The motive power for the trains could be electric too as the first container in line could be a huge battery pack which could be swapped out at each hub.

Rail has always been a credible solution for long distance moves but is shackled by having to pay for its own roads and signalling. This isn't a level playing field as a HGV simply pays a road fund tax and is absolved from all responsibility to repair its 'track' or traffic lights etc. If they had to collectively pay like for like with rail then rail would win every time.

So long distance fully electric would work for goods and remove a lot of other problems over congestion at the same time. But the many thousands of HGV drivers may not like this suggestion.
 
#34 ·
I think you're all missing my point. I wasn't saying the train is worse when it's already going. I was saying trains for passenger use are very wasteful and it would be far better to do the trip by car than have scheduled trains running around half empty all the time in the first place. Especially when the getting to and from the station, swapovers, etc can add pretty much the impact of the car journey in the first place.
As far as passenger travel goes trains are only really worth it if they are packed and doing major miles - even then it's borderline as full coaches are still far less damaging.

Trains are good for what they were made for - hauling massive, heavy loads over long distances. Using trucks for this and trains for people is about as backwards as it could get.
 
#35 ·
I think you're all missing my point. I wasn't saying the train is worse when it's already going. I was saying trains for passenger use are very wasteful and it would be far better to do the trip by car than have scheduled trains running around half empty all the time in the first place. Especially when the getting to and from the station, swapovers, etc can add pretty much the impact of the car journey in the first place.
As far as passenger travel goes trains are only really worth it if they are packed and doing major miles - even then it's borderline as full coaches are still far less damaging.

Trains are good for what they were made for - hauling massive, heavy loads over long distances. Using trucks for this and trains for people is about as backwards as it could get.
Got you.
Although I prefer a half empty train to a full one!!;)
 
#41 ·
Depends on the EV - I would argue that journeys in my Model S so far don't take significantly longer than when I ran my Prius and in fact are much less stressful so I arrive in a far better state of mind! However I also ought to say that I do take regular stops every 2-3 hours and 150-200 miles and now arrange those to co-incide with a Tesla Supercharger location wherever possible. If I have to use a CHAdeMO then there is a time penalty of 20 mins ish for each stop, but at the Superchargers I typically come back to the car, stop the charge and carry on so the time penalty is zero.

I have heard several of my colleagues argue that I only stop because i have to, but personally I think it's dangerous and stupid to drive for more than 4 hours without a break - legislation exists for professional drivers for that reason and those that flout the law are far more likely to cause death and destruction to others.

The Model S isn't for everyone, it's extremely expensive to buy for one thing, but at least for me it's proving to be a very practical vehicle and gives me a range target of 150 miles minimum, 200 miles ideal coupled with readily available fast charging for minimal impact.
From the very beginning Tesla saw the importance of range.
They are still streets ahead in terms of range and forward planning.
In the UK we have little choice, no Model 3 or Bolt to offer a decent range on a reasonably
priced car.
We have the NEW Leaf : the Zoe : The NEW VW Golf and the BMW i3.
All similar with a poor range that won't attract the masses.
They are all just playing at it as Tesla goes marching on!!!:(
The new longer Range cars for 2020 from Jaguar and Audio,will be too expensive
for most people.
The Model 3 does not have any competitors, and the sooner it gets here the better!!!
 
#46 ·
We have the NEW Leaf : the Zoe : The NEW VW Golf and the BMW i3.
All similar with a poor range that won't attract the masses.
They are all just playing at it as Tesla goes marching on!!!
:(
The new longer Range cars for 2020 from Jaguar and Audio,will be too expensive
for most people.
The Model 3 does not have any competitors, and the sooner it gets here the better!!!
I think the bit I've bolded is really harsh. A £17k Zoe has the same range as an early £50k Model S. And the i3 has a REX version that gives it just as much range flexibility as a Tesla.
The Model 3 has no competitors here, but in large part that's because there are few serious BEVs (and the Bolt isn't coming here), and the 3 is going to be more expensive than the competition.
The massive advantage that a Tesla has over the competitors is the supercharger network.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Just to add some credibility I did a reasonably long journey yesterday, driving to the speed limits where possible and for a good part of it in torrential rain, and here are the stats;

356.6 miles covered
6 hours 39 minutes driving time
63 minutes charging time - 2 stops, one for breakfast (Starbucks) and one for a dinner snack (Burger King)
[EDIT] Charging time was comfort break plus food, with no waiting around and there were 2 other non charging stops during the day
[EDIT] Total time lapsed 17 hours with longest distance between charges 195.9 miles/2 trips with 7 hours parked up
Energy used 101.5 kWh
Average speed 55.3 MPH
Average consumption 276 Wh/mile

In our Prius that would have taken about 6.9 gallons of fuel so about £36 compared to my overnight charge of £1.18 to get the car back to 90% and I would probably have stopped for longer to recuperate and once to fuel up.