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"Mediocre??" Toyota BZ4X bestseller in Norway and Denmark

5K views 69 replies 26 participants last post by  Brian G  
#1 · (Edited)
The BZ4X seems to be running away with a big chunk of the sales in the world's most mature EV market.

Close 3rd is Nissan with the Ariya, ahead of the Model Y.

In January and February of last year the Model Y topped the sales charts with similar numbers as the BZ4X is now selling at.
The BZ4X ended the year as Norway's 5th best selling model while the Ariya ended the year as the 8th most popular model.

It looks like Norway is showing a lot of love for Japanese brands.
Of note is that these cars have advanced offroad capable 4x4 systems, which could explain their surging popularity in the cold country.

Another explanation could be that in a maturing market, people are getting more picky with regards to certain charachteristics and reputations of the EV products.

Someone suggested that Toyota is offering low APR sales and discounts to taxi operators but without presenting evidence.

Interestingly, the BZ4X is also the best seller in Denmark.

Could we be on the dawn of a complete market upheaval?
What is going on? Whatever happened to Tesla selling 20 million vehicles by 2030 and Toyota vanishing into oblivion?

 
#3 ·
The motoring press is clueless and misleading. They are concerned more about scratchy plastic than whether the car actually works. Remember their writings and comments back in 2019 when the MG ZS first appeared.. no residual value and cheap and nasty inside? Well that was a load of b0ll0cks, so the buyers thought. Their comments are likely to be just as meaningless in the case of the Toyota. Time they did something useful and got a proper job.
 
#28 ·
They're really not. The interior quality of the car does matter to a lot of people. The MG ZS is cheap and nasty inside, but if that doesn't bother some buyers then it will sell well.

The comments on the bZ4X are not nonsense: just looking at the figures when it launched, it is an aggressively mediocre EV that is only worth it if you really want a Toyota. If you can get one at a big discount or a favourable finance deal then the compromises may be worth it (the terrible styling, the atrocious efficiency, the hilariously average range for the battery size, the mediocre interior and odd binnacle design).

You may not agree with their opinions, but it doesn't make their job not "proper". They offer a solid place to start your research from if you're looking to spend a large sum of money on a car so you can work out which ones to test and which ones to rule out.

For example, from me: two window switches only and a volume "rubby slider" that doesn't have illumination so you can't see it at night? Deal breaker. No indicator stalk? Deal breaker. Cheap interior? Something to investigate on a test drive.
 
#4 ·
The BZ4X seems to be running away with a big chunk of the sales in the world's most mature EV market.

Close 3rd is Nissan with the Ariya, ahead of the Model Y.

In January and February of last year the Model Y topped the sales charts with similar numbers as the BZ4X is now selling at.
The BZ4X ended the year as Norway's 5th best selling model while the Ariya ended the year as the 8th most popular model.

It looks like Norway is showing a lot of love for Japanese brands.
Of note is that these cars have advanced offroad capable 4x4 systems, which could explain their surging popularity in the cold country.

Another explanation could be that in a maturing market, people are getting more picky with regards to certain charachteristics and reputations of the EV products.

Someone suggested that Toyota is offering low APR sales and discounts to taxi operators but without presenting evidence.

Interestingly, the BZ4X is also the best seller in Denmark.

Could we be on the dawn of a complete market upheaval?
What is going on? Whatever happened to Tesla selling 20 million vehicles by 2030 and Toyota vanishing into oblivion?

"Whatever happened to Tesla selling 20 million vehicles by 2030"

Musk.
 
#7 ·
The BZ4X seems to be running away with a big chunk of the sales in the world's most mature EV market.

Close 3rd is Nissan with the Ariya, ahead of the Model Y.

In January and February of last year the Model Y topped the sales charts with similar numbers as the BZ4X is now selling at.
The BZ4X ended the year as Norway's 5th best selling model while the Ariya ended the year as the 8th most popular model.

It looks like Norway is showing a lot of love for Japanese brands.
Of note is that these cars have advanced offroad capable 4x4 systems, which could explain their surging popularity in the cold country.

Another explanation could be that in a maturing market, people are getting more picky with regards to certain charachteristics and reputations of the EV products.

Someone suggested that Toyota is offering low APR sales and discounts to taxi operators but without presenting evidence.

Interestingly, the BZ4X is also the best seller in Denmark.

Could we be on the dawn of a complete market upheaval?
What is going on? Whatever happened to Tesla selling 20 million vehicles by 2030 and Toyota vanishing into oblivion?

@Splendid Systems Here is the "evidence" you requested. I wouldn't have expected you to do any research yourself, as per usual, beyond a few headline articles and throwing in your "opinions" on why a signal is occuring.

Toyota Norway offering 1.95% interest on the BZ4X

Kia Norway offering 3.99% interest on EV6

Tesla Norway offering 5.95% interest rate on Model 3

So we could spend all day here in the UK sharing our possible "explanations" on why this Toyota EV is suddenly so popular in Norway and Denmark, but we don't actually know why, do we? Unless you have some market research from consumers in those nations that you have conducted.

When looking at market dynamics, it's always best to look at changes in context, e.g. some models have had a big jump in sales, and some have had decreases in sales. See the data below (which of course you wouldn't take the time to find or cite)

The VW ID 7 seems to have increased sales by an almost similar percentage in January to the bZ4X. I don't see you commenting on that. After all, it comes across that Toyota is amazing, and every other car manufacturer is completely crap and should be banished from the face of the earth, according to your "opinions", right?

Feel free to share if you are a Toyota employee. It's ok to be transparent on the internet.

I am not a Toyota employee, nor do I have any Toyota stock.

Image


Here is some context on these results from the article where the data was posted.

"New car sales in Norway rally back up 82.4% year-on-year in January to 9,343 units over a particularly low year-ago comparison set. Thanks to sales up 89.8% to 8,954, BEVs reach a record 95.8% share vs. 92.1% in January 2024 which was a record at the time. HEVs are down -24.4% to 124 and 1.3% share while PHEVs edge up 1.1% to 95 and 1%. Petrol accounts for 0.4% of the market vs. 0.9% a year ago and diesel 1.5% vs. 2% in January 2024. Volkswagen (+374.8%) surges to 20.3% share vs. 10.9% over the Full Year 2024 and places three models inside the January Top 5: the ID.4 at #2, the ID.3 at #4 and the ID.7 at #5. The reason behind this success is the more aggressive prices that the VW dealerships have been able to secure.

Toyota (+325.8%) is also in outstanding shape and places the bZ4X in pole position for the 2nd time ever after last October. As a reminder this month the bZ4X is also #1 in Denmark. According to local publication BilNytt.no, Toyota Norway CEO Piotr Pawlak said the carmaker ran out of cars at the end of last year and are now fulfilling a large order backlog.
Tesla (-37.9%) implodes in third place with just 7.4% of the market. Although usually weaker in January, this month’s score is all the more worrying that there is plenty of inventory in the port of Drammen when new cars are parked. Mercedes (+262.3%), BMW (+228.6%) and Ford (+132.9%) also post surreal gains in the remainder of the Top 10."

If we go back to another article summarising 2024 sales in Norway for the entire year,

"128,691 new cars found a Norwegian home in 2024, with the annual tally only edging into positive in November.

This is still a mediocre result given 2023 sales were off -27.2% on the year prior. The main characteristic of the Norwegian market is its world best acceptance of BEVs. Indeed in 2024 sales of pure electric vehicles gained 9.4% to 114,409 and a whopping 88.9% share vs. 82.4% last year and 79.3% in 2022. Meanwhile PHEVs plummet -65.7% to 3,489 and 2.7% share vs. 8% a year ago and HEVs drop -9% to 6,869 and 5.3% share vs. 6% in 2023.

As a whole, thanks to 124,767 sales, electrified vehicles hold 97% of the Norwegian market in 2024 vs. 96.4% in 2023, 93.3% in 2022, 40.2% in 2017 and 7% in 2012. Diesel is at 2.3% share and petrol at 0.8%.

Tesla (-4.5%) continues to be the dominant force in the market but sees its share slide from 20% to 18.9%.

Far below is Volkswagen (+2.2%) overtaking Toyota (-13.2%) in the last month of the year.

Volvo (+25.2%) and BMW (+16.6%) both post fantastic results to round out the Top 5. MG (+38.4%) is the best performer in the Top 10, advancing two spots to #10, with Audi (+18%) also very strong and Nissan (+5.8%) and Hyundai (+5.5%) also beating the market. Skoda (-15%) struggles.

Further down, BYD (+93%) is up five spots to #13 and Xpeng (+153.5%) up 7 to #15.

For the first time in Norwegian history, Tesla manages a perfect 1-2 with the Model Y (-27%) threepeating at #1 with 13.1% share vs. 18.2% last year and the Model 3 surging 248.7% to #2 with 5.6% share vs. just 1.6% in 2023. The Model Y won seven months but the Model 3 won none.

Landing directly in third place after launching in December 2023, the Volvo EX30 (+120383.3%) is an instant blockbuster in Norway and even ranked #1 outright in April and May.

The VW ID.4 (+9.2%) is up year-on-year but drops two spots to #4, it was the best-seller in July.

The Toyota bZ4X (+11.3%) is down one rank to #5 but topped the charts in October. This again makes Norway the only county in the world where this model is successful."

Regarding the bZ4X, I am curious regarding the UK market.

If it was such a fantastic EV (as you keep alluding to) in the marketplace, why would Toyota UK need to offer 0% finance and £2,500 deposit contribution to retail customers? Surely, the car would just fly off the shelves due to it being technically superior to everything else in the marketplace?

Why would they need to offer 0% APR in the UK to Uber driver owners for these cars?
 
#11 · (Edited)
@BornAgainEcoWarrior Great question, and given @Splendid Systems may not want to answer that question by looking at the sales figures published by Toyota, I will take a moment to share those figures. Link to the data from Toyota

Alas, their electrified vehicle sales figures for 2024 are for Lexus and Toyota together. Let's take a look anyway. Gosh, we keep getting told FCEV is the future. What on earth is happening to sales?

So their BEV sales are increasing at a faster rate than HEV sales, but nowhere near the growth of MHEV models. Hard to figure out from these combined figures whether it's the Lexus EV or Toyota EV that is doing better in sales.

HEV
4.1M (up by 21.1% YoY)
MHEV
94,810 (up 253% YoY)
PHEV
153,829 (up 23% YoY)
FCEV
1,778 (down 56% YoY)
BEV
139,892 (up 35% YoY)

When you look at ALL electrified vehicles by region, and "growth" YoY

Inside of Japan, down -2.6%
North America, up 48.1% (must all those people getting RAV4s and Camry hybrids, and actually Toyota themselves do point out in the spreadsheet that NA is strong growth of Camry hybrid)
Europe, up 9.5%
Asia (including China), up 32.6%
China, up 26.8%
Other, up 46.9%

So in 2024, Toyota sold 10.1 million vehicles (including Lexus) and yet out of those global sales, under 140k were Lexus/Toyota BEVs and under 2k were Lexus/Toyota FCEVs.

Just 1.4% of those 10.1 million vehicles were BEVs, and just 0.02% of those 10.1 million vehicles were FCEVs.

They haven't done that well in the stock market in 2024 either. They could very well do amazingly well with BEVs one day in the future, but they are far from a global leader in BEVs.

Image

 
#13 ·
Looks like we have a "new topic" of dedication from @Splendid Systems 😂😂

Hydrogen obviously will not make the grades any longer, so now we are going for Toyota BEV "dominance" 😂
BMW are selling more BEV in Europe than Toyota selling worldwide by 3 to 1... BMW sold 426 594 BEV in 2024 VS 139 892 Toyota BEV as @raspy have pointed out 😂
Rolls-Royce alone as part of BMW group sold more EV's than Toyota sold in Norway and Denmark....1890 cars. Enough said regarding Toyota "dominance"
 
#14 ·
The BZ4X seems to be running away with a big chunk of the sales in the world's most mature EV market.

Close 3rd is Nissan with the Ariya, ahead of the Model Y.

In January and February of last year the Model Y topped the sales charts with similar numbers as the BZ4X is now selling at.
The BZ4X ended the year as Norway's 5th best selling model while the Ariya ended the year as the 8th most popular model.

It looks like Norway is showing a lot of love for Japanese brands.
Of note is that these cars have advanced offroad capable 4x4 systems, which could explain their surging popularity in the cold country.

Another explanation could be that in a maturing market, people are getting more picky with regards to certain charachteristics and reputations of the EV products.

Someone suggested that Toyota is offering low APR sales and discounts to taxi operators but without presenting evidence.

Interestingly, the BZ4X is also the best seller in Denmark.

Could we be on the dawn of a complete market upheaval?
What is going on? Whatever happened to Tesla selling 20 million vehicles by 2030 and Toyota vanishing into oblivion?

So what you're saying is... Toyota were wrong with hydrogen and evs are the future? 🤔
 
#16 ·
I suspect what we’re really seeing is that Toyota can make BEVs when they are forced to. So in Scandinavia a manufacturer more or less has to sell BEVs if they want to sell cars. Likewise in the UK Toyota got quite close to their ZEV mandate.
So they can and do build a saleable BEV when push comes to shove. But where they have a choice to do otherwise that is what they choose. So still very much a laggard in global terms. They still seem focused on milking as much profits as possible from ICE. A strategy that let’s be honest has real consequences in pollution and global warming and will cost people in health, livelihoods and lives. They’re not exactly on a path to become a B corp.
 
#19 ·
It is interesting how an idea that started form being able to use an other undesirable waste product has stuck so hard in the minds of some industry. We talk about generating H2 by electrolysis using excess wind. There is actually an even cheaper way of doing it. You pull it off the top of nuclear reactors. Once of the challenges with light water reactors is that they are really good at pulling the oxygen from the hydrogen in water. So much so that then things go pear shaped you get H2 explosions. So you spend a fare amount of effort and energy trying to minimise this. If you have a use for it you basically get free hydrogen. It all comes from the 'waste' side of generating the energy, ie in the unused thermal portion. Japan, therefore, had an abundant supply and one where you didn't have to worry about ramping things up and down, which electrolyses are not great fans of.
 
#20 ·
More insights that could explain what Toyota is up against at this stage of the global EV market (esp in China) cc: @BornAgainEcoWarrior @Padrino @Splendid Systems

Personally, I would love Toyota/Lexus to succeed globally in EVs (as I've had some wonderful ICE Toyota/Lexus cars in the past), but the harsh reality is that they face massive challenges (both internally as company), and externally. Only time will tell.

"But this excellent Bloomberg Businessweek story goes much deeper into detail about how Toyota is trying to catch up to new construction methods in the EV era—and whether it even can. In fact, it's probably the best story I've read on this subject yet. A subscription may be required, but it is worth a read in full.

Here's one excerpt, highlighting a seemingly anodyne part of any car: the 20-pound steel cross-bar at the front of the vehicle.

Today’s standard cross-car beam is the product of incremental improvements made across decades, and most versions of it have wound up under the hoods of internal combustion cars.

This is a testament to the Toyota Production System, which continuously refines even the tiniest details of individual auto parts.

Over untold iterations, the beam has been designed to keep the vibrations of an internal combustion engine from making their way to the passengers.

But electric motors don’t vibrate, and steel is heavy. These are among the reasons why Tesla Inc. and BYD Co., the top makers of battery-electric vehicles, manufacture similar beams out of plastic. Theirs weigh only about 14 pounds, according to Caresoft, and they’re cheaper and easier to install, too.


It’s a change that sounds so simple once you hear it, and intuitive, perhaps, if you’ve never dealt with a gas engine.

If you’ve spent a lifetime thinking in terms of micro-improvements—the core of kaizen, the philosophy that underpins the Toyota Production System, or TPS—it’s an insight that might well prove elusive. 'You cannot kaizen yourself from an ICE vehicle to a BEV'; says Caresoft President Terry Woychowski, a former General Motors Co. executive. ;That is the dilemma for Toyota.'

Now apply that lesson to the entire car. You see the problem here?

What Tesla pioneered, and what Chinese automakers have run with, is a clean-sheet, top-to-bottom reset of how a car is built from the ground up—not with decades of carmaking tradition behind it but starting with the idea of a profitable battery-powered vehicle and going from there.

That's essential because batteries are expensive and they will be for some time. So in order to actually make money on EVs, automakers have to streamline, cut costs and reinvent in other ways.

This is part of why so many new EVs in particular just have screens and very few buttons.
And so much is now made in-house, which runs counter to decades of outsourcing to countless third-party supplier companies.

As that story notes, a clean-sheet reinvention of everything isn't how Toyota's 'kaizen,' or continuous improvement of existing systems, is supposed to work. Nor is it how Toyota has trained generations of engineers, product planners and businesspeople around the world.

And that's a system copied by nearly every other automaker out there; it is why Toyota's being singled out here. It's the company that taught the world how to make modern cars, and now modern cars are increasingly built in a different way. (This is also why Ford is doing its 'skunkworks' EV project, although the status of that is anyone's guess lately.)

Toyota clearly isn't taking this lying down. Chairman Akio Toyoda balked at the idea that the Toyota Production System and 'kaizen' cannot figure out the future:

When a reporter asked whether the debacle meant Toyota’s production philosophy was butting up against its limits, Toyoda fixed him with a cold stare and replied, 'That’s completely wrong.' His team was hard at work, he said, using kaizen principles to resolve whatever problems might be at issue, just as it always had.

[...] 'Japan’s automobile industry has been able to become a global leader, but now it’s on the defensive,' says former Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa.

'It’s not very good at fundamentally rethinking things and learning from that. But no other country has such a deep bench of engineers of such quality. With an open mind to learning, they will still be able to do very well.'

Now, I took issue with some of that story, including an unfair dredging up of Toyota's recall crisis in the 2010s or saying Toyoda has an ;aversion to a fundamental rethink of the family business'; the dude was just out there at CES showing off a city of the future and investing in space travel.

Everything I've seen indicates Toyota is serious about the future of mobility. It even reports that Toyota engineers are already using 'some very un-kaizen workarounds' to make the bZ4X better.

But the point is this: it's no longer about just competing with Tesla.

It's now about the Chinese auto industry that's far bigger than any on earth and has a dozen Teslas waiting in the wings to steal Toyota's market share globally.

And the machine that changed the world can't figure that out, everyone else is cooked too."
 
#26 · (Edited)
More insights that could explain what Toyota is up against at this stage of the global EV market (esp in China) cc: @BornAgainEcoWarrior @Padrino @Splendid Systems

Personally, I would love Toyota/Lexus to succeed globally in EVs (as I've had some wonderful ICE Toyota/Lexus cars in the past), but the harsh reality is that they face massive challenges (both internally as company), and externally. Only time will tell.

"But this excellent Bloomberg Businessweek story goes much deeper into detail about how Toyota is trying to catch up to new construction methods in the EV era—and whether it even can. In fact, it's probably the best story I've read on this subject yet. A subscription may be required, but it is worth a read in full.

Here's one excerpt, highlighting a seemingly anodyne part of any car: the 20-pound steel cross-bar at the front of the vehicle.

Today’s standard cross-car beam is the product of incremental improvements made across decades, and most versions of it have wound up under the hoods of internal combustion cars.

This is a testament to the Toyota Production System, which continuously refines even the tiniest details of individual auto parts.

Over untold iterations, the beam has been designed to keep the vibrations of an internal combustion engine from making their way to the passengers.

But electric motors don’t vibrate, and steel is heavy. These are among the reasons why Tesla Inc. and BYD Co., the top makers of battery-electric vehicles, manufacture similar beams out of plastic. Theirs weigh only about 14 pounds, according to Caresoft, and they’re cheaper and easier to install, too.


It’s a change that sounds so simple once you hear it, and intuitive, perhaps, if you’ve never dealt with a gas engine.

If you’ve spent a lifetime thinking in terms of micro-improvements—the core of kaizen, the philosophy that underpins the Toyota Production System, or TPS—it’s an insight that might well prove elusive. 'You cannot kaizen yourself from an ICE vehicle to a BEV'; says Caresoft President Terry Woychowski, a former General Motors Co. executive. ;That is the dilemma for Toyota.'

Now apply that lesson to the entire car. You see the problem here?

What Tesla pioneered, and what Chinese automakers have run with, is a clean-sheet, top-to-bottom reset of how a car is built from the ground up—not with decades of carmaking tradition behind it but starting with the idea of a profitable battery-powered vehicle and going from there.

That's essential because batteries are expensive and they will be for some time. So in order to actually make money on EVs, automakers have to streamline, cut costs and reinvent in other ways.

This is part of why so many new EVs in particular just have screens and very few buttons.
And so much is now made in-house, which runs counter to decades of outsourcing to countless third-party supplier companies.

As that story notes, a clean-sheet reinvention of everything isn't how Toyota's 'kaizen,' or continuous improvement of existing systems, is supposed to work. Nor is it how Toyota has trained generations of engineers, product planners and businesspeople around the world.

And that's a system copied by nearly every other automaker out there; it is why Toyota's being singled out here. It's the company that taught the world how to make modern cars, and now modern cars are increasingly built in a different way. (This is also why Ford is doing its 'skunkworks' EV project, although the status of that is anyone's guess lately.)

Toyota clearly isn't taking this lying down. Chairman Akio Toyoda balked at the idea that the Toyota Production System and 'kaizen' cannot figure out the future:

When a reporter asked whether the debacle meant Toyota’s production philosophy was butting up against its limits, Toyoda fixed him with a cold stare and replied, 'That’s completely wrong.' His team was hard at work, he said, using kaizen principles to resolve whatever problems might be at issue, just as it always had.

[...] 'Japan’s automobile industry has been able to become a global leader, but now it’s on the defensive,' says former Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa.

'It’s not very good at fundamentally rethinking things and learning from that. But no other country has such a deep bench of engineers of such quality. With an open mind to learning, they will still be able to do very well.'

Now, I took issue with some of that story, including an unfair dredging up of Toyota's recall crisis in the 2010s or saying Toyoda has an ;aversion to a fundamental rethink of the family business'; the dude was just out there at CES showing off a city of the future and investing in space travel.

Everything I've seen indicates Toyota is serious about the future of mobility. It even reports that Toyota engineers are already using 'some very un-kaizen workarounds' to make the bZ4X better.

But the point is this: it's no longer about just competing with Tesla.

It's now about the Chinese auto industry that's far bigger than any on earth and has a dozen Teslas waiting in the wings to steal Toyota's market share globally.

And the machine that changed the world can't figure that out, everyone else is cooked too."

I think that you can relax a bit.
If you know so much better, you can quit being an armchair chief engineer and start building your own 10 million cars a year and stick it to them.

As for China, yes they are doing great in the domestic market but outside of that.
Norwegians have plenty of Chinese options, why aren't they topping the sales lists?

I've recently rented a MG ZS.
Very nice car to rent for a couple days, but I would have to think twice before actually buying one.
Some of the interior plastics' wrapping was coming off already on a brand new car.
So it looks all good on the surface, but how will they last over 10 years...?

I think that Toyota is ready to sell an EV to anyone willing to buy one, the global market isn't there yet but in markets where they are there, they are showing that they can lead in sales.
So expect Toyota to be topping the EV sales charts in markets where EV's are going mainstream, and in other markets, they will top the ICE sales charts, as they always have.

It will be interesting to see what will happen once Toyota start selling there Aygo and Yaris EV's.
 
#30 · (Edited)
The GAC produce BZ3X and BZ3C. Obviously China only. Remember Mazda have gone with a Chinese brand model with the eZ6.
I think we will see this more in the future. Chinese designed powertrain with body skin and interior designed by legacy auto and built in China.
Obviously Mazda's was more just styling as it isn't expected to be a massive seller. Toyota has put more effort into the interior moving away from sleek interiors, lights and gimmicks (favoured by new Chinese buyers) and back to basics and buttons for it's core Toyota customers.

Obviously we aren't getting these models but I think it's them dipping their toe in the water exercise. A move away from being a car manufacturer to a brand. Works well for Apple.
 
#31 ·
I leased my car, cost wasn't a consideration, space, comfort, looks, performance and range were. I test drove just about everything I could get access to (the E3008 & Scenic were available on lease, but not yet released to dealers, so they were out). Teslas were out, no Muskyness for me.

I test drove the following - not in this order, the order below is my preference from top to bottom:

Hyundai Ioniq 5
Skoda Enyaq
Ford Mustang Mach E
Kia EV6
Audi Q4 E-tron
Hyundai Kona
Kia Niro EV
VW ID.4
Toyota BZ4X
BYD Atto 3
Nissan Ariya

I ended up in an Ioniq 5, it was simply the best choice for me. I took my wife to test out the top 3 (she would not do all of them!) and she arrived at the same conclusion.

The cheapest to lease were the BZ4X and the ID.4. I pay £2000 more over 3 years to sit in an Ioniq 5 over the BZ4X. The rank you see is the order in which I would choose them based on my tests. As I said earlier, I rank it Mediocre at best, that's my ranking, not some magazine hack's.
 
#35 ·
I leased my car, cost wasn't a consideration, space, comfort, looks, performance and range were. I test drove just about everything I could get access to (the E3008 & Scenic were available on lease, but not yet released to dealers, so they were out). Teslas were out, no Muskyness for me.

I test drove the following - not in this order, the order below is my preference from top to bottom:

Hyundai Ioniq 5
Skoda Enyaq
Ford Mustang Mach E
Kia EV6
Audi Q4 E-tron
Hyundai Kona
Kia Niro EV
VW ID.4
Toyota BZ4X
BYD Atto 3
Nissan Ariya

I ended up in an Ioniq 5, it was simply the best choice for me. I took my wife to test out the top 3 (she would not do all of them!) and she arrived at the same conclusion.

The cheapest to lease were the BZ4X and the ID.4. I pay £2000 more over 3 years to sit in an Ioniq 5 over the BZ4X. The rank you see is the order in which I would choose them based on my tests. As I said earlier, I rank it Mediocre at best, that's my ranking, not some magazine hack's.
Wait until that ICCU failure hits, you will look forward to a Toyota BZ4X...
 
#38 ·
I never said the Ioniq 5 was perfect, nor without issues. It’s just way better than the bz4x. The risk of iccu issues is about 5% based on the huge polls done in the USA. It’s a full maintenance lease with a guaranteed replacement if broken, so I’m not worried about it.

I’ll leave it to the final words from Top Gears long term test….it pretty much sums up the bz4x…

“It feels like Toyota didn’t try hard enough to impress, and ticked boxes without doubling down on any aspect at all. Add to that the lifeless range figures in the wild, and it’s a car that makes you want to sigh. It’s not even bad enough to hate, but you’d have to be a very beige thinker to fall in love.”
 
#42 ·
Your link shows 939 Toyota bev sales for this year to date. You said Tesla was in collapse last year and they sold 24000 for 2024, versus 26000 for 2023 in Norway. So that's 2000 a month on average. I don't remember you ever saying people in Norway were falling over themselves to buy Tesla's even though they've been buying then at twice the monthly rate?

You have a habit of cherry picking figures. Your previous BZ4X taking over the market prediction didn't work out so well:


Norway sales figures for 2023 and 2024 have been consistent with Tesla blitzing everyone.and VW following in second.


Arstechnica suggest that there was a batch shipment of BZ4Xs this year so we'll see.

It's possible there will be a boost at the moment though because the Model Y is pre refresh and Elon has really excelled himself recently. I don't see any reason why Toyota will overtake VW though, they've not done so for the last few years.
 
#40 ·
I can think of 3 reasons..
1. it's not a Tesla
2. Japanese engineering is still highly regarded in some parts of the world
3. it's not a Tesla!
 
#48 ·
Strangely I had a Toyota RAV 4 built in 1997 which went for scrap last year. It was very mediocre, the interior was rough but it went and went and went. The engine oil was as clean as a whistle but the electronics started to fail. And because it was mediocre we didn't care when the grandchildren climbed aboard carrying the sand off the beach. I paid £3,000 for it in 2006 and got £500 for it as scrap.