I guess its fine if you want to lend money for Elon.

 

Brave and patient chap!

Patient? I was actually surprised as to how quick the proceedings had gone. The first letter was written on February 21st this year and Tesla settled 8 months later.

Where I live you'd be looking at many years before you actually get a court date.

 

The small claims court process as it is known in the U.K. is or used to be very good designed to settle minor matters simply and cheaply. The person who brought this claim approached it very sensibly and logically and as they say they had a straightforward simple case that Tesla could not argue with.
This should be a good example for others to follow.

 

Absolutely splendid performance from Ed Butler What a chap.

 

Hats off to Ed, I'm amazed more people haven't done this. FSD is clearly years away from viable and I strongly suspect (having used it) that it never will be.

 

I think the sad thing is it feeds into negativity about the company Tesla, I read a piece the other day talking about their attitude to range stats someone had posted on this site and how they choose to take a route that is overly optimistic whereas another company choose to take official figures preferring to potentially undersell their cars capabilities. In essence one is over promising and underdelivering another possible under promising and over delivering. For me Tesla seem to be willing to risk miss-selling and that then makes me more cautious about their products in general.

 

Well it worked well for Apple over the years. They have always over promised and made good money. Most won't complain, some will but not follow it up. So with your big pot of money you only have to satisfy the tiny few who are willing to go the whole way.

 

I guess he liked his car too much. That's why he only got his money back for FSD. He could have claimed the only reason he bought this car was because of FSD, and since it didn't deliver on the promise, Tesla should refund the car. 4 years with no loss would have been nicer.

I have to say the naming and claims about autopilot and FSD rub me the wrong way and make me want to avoid them, so not completely neutral here. But I don't feel any particular affinity with any car brand, and don't hate Tesla. Just thinking that if you're going after any company for mis-selling, might as well go for as much as you can, not the bare minimum compensation just for the stuff that's not working as advertised.

 

Small claims court is limited to the amounts you can claim or was and the price of the car would exceed it. Claiming for the whole car after 4 yrs would not be the same legal arguments at all and a court would deduct 4 yrs use. The approach in this case was spot on and Tesla had to pay for not delivering what was promised in this specific facility whereas he had a car that met many of the parameters of the car as sold. So claiming for the full car would have made it easier for Tesla to defend the action and squabble over the settlement figure. Also the grounds of how the action arises has a bearing here it can be argued it was a failure to meet contract terms as opposed to mis-selling which is different Tesla promised FSD would be delivered in a timescale and it was not. Law is complicated and chapeau to the OP he handled this very well. Hopefully others who also spent the money and have received nothing will follow suit in the same manner.

 

City streets and all the things that were 'coming soon' are still 'coming soon' .

Has anyone reported to Tesla to the ASA for having these as coming soon when they still haven't been delivered to UK customers?

 

Tesla changed the text on the website. There is a lengthy disclaimer on the order page. Tesla might prevail on cars ordered after they added the disclaimers.



Tesla are working hard to deliver and might eventually pull it off. They need to for financial reasons. FSD is close to working on sunny dry days in the US.

 

Tesla are working hard to deliver and might eventually pull it off. They need to for financial reasons. FSD is close to working on sunny dry days in the US.

"Close" is not enough, is it? It has to work. Probably not 100% of the time, but at least at a rate, that is better than an average human on the worst of days.

 

In the UK it is from the same school of bong hits as Robotaxi and paying $44bn for Twitter....😀

 

I doubt they can get FSD working here on Hardware 3 cars. The cameras on mine are often degraded by condensation. But I could be wrong...

 

Yep, and Tesla says that condensation on the pillar cameras is "normal". One thing I found out by experiment is that if I precondition the car before I leave, everything is OK. Otherwise you have to put the heating on to dry them out. I don't understand why the cameras on the pillars are not sealed off?

 

Here is a link to the article I referred to in my earlier post

Tesla’s secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints

About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

edited to add at first I thought it was just a piece of lazy journalism and Tesla were simply dealing with the issues we all know and appreciate about GOM geography, driving style, temps etc etc but it is not there is more to the story which is of interest and points to the attitude and character of the company.

 

That video was in a new Model S. It has more sensors than a 3, including radar. Possibly HW4 too?




Tesla have decided not to sell that car in the UK although a very small number of LHD ones went to customers before they removed it from the UK website.

 

Lidar / radar has the capability to look well beyond the car in front, often several cars if bunched up and using optimal positioning of sensors etc.

I think vision only is terribly flawed.

Let’s the arguments commence 🍿
😜

 

Nobody with only vision is going to argue.

I ordered after being impressed with the tight car park maneuvering distance warnings. Gave me 3" to the showroom window and I didn't take the pane of glass out.

Then my car turns up and the sensors have been removed. No parking assistance at all. Wait months for the promised Vision version and it is crap. Says STOP when you are feet away, says "nothing there" as you slowly nudge up to the bollard in the Tesco Car park, says Not Available if it is dark, says Impaired if there is a hint of rain.

 

I agree with those who feel Tesla Vision is a backwards step and I would certainly not use it without keeping a good look out (I do use it on motorways) but I do wonder if it is mainly a software issue. Watching FSD videos from America the car seems to handle city traffic well with very few issues nowadays. One of the main issues I have with the current car is that the cameras don't work in strong sunlight, rain or very dark nights which makes it more of a gimmick. Let's have sensors back as they work far better in poor visibility.

 

personally i would have no issues having a tesla.... it was a close call whether i got a model S or an ipace..... the ipace won for various reasons and i have no regrets, but that is not to say there is anything wrong with either car.

however, I would say their camera system is not really fit for purpose.

 

That’s the situation demonstrated perfectly.

 

From personal experience, the lag between Vision detecting something and intervening versus Radar intervention might not be much, but it is noticeable and could make a difference at motorway speeds. (Of course both systems suffer from false positives).

 

@simcity

Tesla owner wins ~$10k settlement over Tesla's false self-driving claims

A Tesla owner in the UK challenged Tesla over its failure to deliver on its full self-driving claims and won...

electrek.co

 

@simcity

Tesla owner wins ~$10k settlement over Tesla's false self-driving claims

A Tesla owner in the UK challenged Tesla over its failure to deliver on its full self-driving claims and won...

electrek.co

It was only a matter of time before the likes of Electrek picked it up. Doubtless it will now be picked up by the established press too.

I like the favourite reader comment…

“Tesla should refund the purchase price to anyone who bought it and feels they were mislead, without being forced by a court to do so. Tesla benefited from the data they collected so I suggest they lose essentially nothing. Paying to educate Dojo is Obscene.

If you like your FSD, keep it. Musk appreciates your paying, to eventually create a system at your expense, to the financial benefit of Tesla.

Musk will never do it as he’s comfortable continuing to make claims and predictions that are nonsense.”

 

I read some of the comments about this online. I cannot believe the number of people who are still trying to tell disgruntled buyers that it is them who were in the wrong for being stupid expecting FSD to actually do what it said it would.
I don't necessarily thi k Tesla went out initially to lie. perhaps they did believe they would crack fully autonomous cars at 1st... and I could even accept a delay due to the unforseen mess that was covid, but the simple fact is (in this 1 area) Tesla massively came up short esp outside of the US and as such refunds should be offered (without the threat of a lawsuit) with a "we are really sorry our software didn't deliver how we hoped, however have a refund and perhaps on top of that as good will you can keep the FSD for as long as you keep the car"

(I think had that of been done without anyone having to go the legal route things like interest added etc would be avoided and most people would have accepted it being a genuine error on Tesla's part rather than anything dishonesty)

as it stand however I hope there is a class action suit and the book gets thrown at them.

 

I see it over on the Tesla forums (TMC) quite a bit on various things “… it’s YOU stupid not our sacred Tesla”

FFS get a grip Kool-Aid swillers. It’s just a flipping car.

I understand the psychology of defending your own purchase (yes I’ve owned one) but Jesus stop trying to victim bash people.

 

Autowipers now work reasonably well in mine. Maps are good. The Tesla app works. Navigation is better than most built-in systems. Auto high beams are good enough that I use them but could be improved.

I've disabled, don't use or ignore much of the remaining automation and safety features.. . Phantom braking is better then it was in July but still not good enough.

2023 M3 RWD, Vision-only FSD Hardware 3, SW 2023.32.9. AP 11.4.4. Navigation Map EU-2023.32-14783

 

Maps are good.

That's reminded me of another bug. If the nav offers you alternative routes when you enter a destination, and you pick one of the "light blue" alternatives, it will magically go straight back to navigating you on the original "dark blue" preferred route. I'm guessing because it's x minutes quicker, where x is the threshold set for rerouting.
It used to pull that trick after you stopped somewhere (eg a charger). Now it does it straight away. Doesn't bother me really because I tend to want to get where I'm going ASAP anyway. But it's definitely a bug.

The nav and integration to charging is good though.

One thing I've wondered about is the car will precondition the battery when navigating to a supercharger fine. But I've plugged into a V2 charger without navigating there and it charged at 144kW, which is the most you get out of those chargers anyway. So why precondition the battery (and incur a bit of heat related degradation as well as wasting a few kWh) if the system knows I'm not going to be able to charge at a rate where preconditioning will make a difference anyway?