up around 7m/kWh - leading to a pretty decent range for what it is.

That is very impressive for sure.

 

Looks like a great option. I'm surprised we are not seeing more of these options coming to market as there is definitely a real need for this type of car. More importantly I love how all the panels are easy and cheap to get hold of. Will make fixing these cars very easy.

 

7 miles per kwh is the WLTP estimate so likely to be far less in real world driving. EV database puts it at 4 miles per kWh. It needs to be driven by normal people doing normal stuff to find out.

 

7 miles per kwh is the WLTP estimate ...

I might expect 10mi/kWh, then?

 

Just watching it, it looks perfect to me.

Real key, tick!
Real handbrake, tick!
45 bhp, excellent! How much does one really need in a car?

Lightweight. neat modest cars with physical knobs and buttons.

I'm seeing exactly zero to not like, except for .... the Big R is lurking in there behind the badge.

 

Real key, tick!
Real handbrake, tick!
45 bhp, excellent! How much does one really need in a car?

The VW e-up/Skoda Citigo/SEAT Mii electric also have a real handbrake and a real key.
If any happens to my wife's Mii electric, it looks like the Dacia Spring would be a nice replacement. It never does long trips.

 

They've built and sold tens of thousands of them- hopefully any problems ironed out by now.
Might go have a look at one when they're here as it's a better size for us than the id3.
Pretty sure when I drive the thing it will be down on ride comfort, so would be a big leap to get the Mrs. out of the VW.
I really like a simple, utilitarian car though and the VW is a bit too tech laden for my taste, excellent in lots of ways though it is.

 

They've built and sold tens of thousands of them- hopefully any problems ironed out by now....

I fear an all to commonly held misperception amongst willing car buyers with money burning a hole in their pocket.

The Zoe first came out over 10 years ago which seems to have given them plenty of time to work out how to add more problems to it.

 

Another Chinese car….absolutely not a problem to me, bring it on I say
Some maybe not aware…and think its a Renault…which it is, in a way
( like a Russell Hobbs kettle is “British” 😂😂)

 

Oh, OK, as long as it's Chinese, with a pseudo-Renault badge on.

Gee, we must have come a long way when I can now say 'that's a plus, at least it's Chinese'!!

This is going to be oh-so my car. The depreciation will be shocking (low power, no rapid charging), I'll hope to pick one up 'in the spring' [pun! ] for £7~8k with some delivery mileage on it.

 

If new cost £15K, I am wondering is it going to cost less than £10K within a couple months as second hand?

 

I suspect the base model in white will be pretty rare. I would expect that most models will be the top trim because of the screen and people will want a colour so £17.5k.
Not many people should walk into a Dacia dealer and hand over that kind of money when you can buy a year old MG4 or other cars. The key to its sales will be how low Dacia can get the monthly PCP figures. So we might not see a huge amount of these on the secondhand market for 2 or 3 years when people's lease/HP/PCP finish. I guess we will wait and see.

 

I can probably answer questions on the Dacia Spring, aside from how it drives, as I was the Polestar-owning geek in the first Electrifying.com video

 

I did call the nearest dealer earlier today to get a test drive, apparently won't be available for that for a few months. Name is down to try one.

 

I think it comes from the 186 mile WLTP 'urban' range.

186miles / 25kWh = 7.4 mi/kWh

Mixed is given as 137 miles, which would equate to 5.4 mi/kWh.

Somewhere I saw a realistic suggestion that it had an 80 mile winter range.

 

FWIW, (wrong thread, feel free to repost), there seem to currently be a glut of 3 year old lease Miis (etc) coming on to the market. Now in the £9k range for a 3 year old ex lease low miler.

Nice.

Tempting, even.

.. I still don't need a new car. 😩 Just 'want one'. New shiny toy, please.

 

DSG Morecambe are taking orders for the Dacia Spring
Autotrader is also show lisings for it

New & Used Cars for Sale - Autotrader UK

www.autotrader.co.uk

 

I have seen a lot of them in France recently

 

It's kind of crazy to me that any manufacturer can sell a road car with 45 hp these days. Whilst it's perfectly adequate for around town, a 45 hp motor for trips involving a motorway or busy dual carriageway is terrifying to me. There are several slip roads in the UK where such a slow acceleration will be downright dangerous because of the lack of space on the slip road combined with a lack of visibility for oncoming traffic. 0-70mph speed being around 24 seconds by my maths, or over 370m to reach the speed limit. There are several motorway sliproads where there is insufficient space to reach this speed in a Dacia Spring 45 - such as the tight slips at Rickmansworth on the M25 - and I'm not accounting for any gradient either. I also wonder if it'll be able to keep up with 70 mph traffic on steeper parts of the road network like the M62 Pennine pass where my old GTE in electric mode would be using roughly 80% power up the hill (~80hp) to maintain 70 mph - though it did weigh about 500kg more than the Spring (and it had an engine for when you needed a bit more poke).

They do fortunately look to be bringing the 65 hp model to the UK too, which will be a lot safer for this kind of use. Whilst there's nothing prohibited about selling a slow-accelerating vehicle on UK roads, it does seem to be a significant compromise to save money on the build. Presumably it allows them to use a much smaller inverter and motor (I'd guess the battery pack is equally capable since that doesn't change with the motor spec). They have a rather low voltage architecture, unique amongst car-sized EVs, of around 240V. This will also mean it is very slow to charge on most CCS chargers, but it looks like it will only do about 30kW there anyway due to the lack of battery cooling, so more than one stop on a road trip will get pretty boring pretty quickly.

Long term battery durability in a cheap car like this will be one to look at carefully. They don't have liquid cooling, but the low charge/discharge rates should help there. The pack will cycle a lot more compared to larger packs if it is used similarly to those larger battery cars. The cell chemistry will also be a significant factor in its longevity too. They seem to offer a 75,000 mile / 8 year warranty, with a guaranteed 75% capacity, which is a little behind the mainstream competition (on mileage) but not too far behind others in a similar category, e.g. SAIC are 80,000 miles / 7 year on the MG4 to 70% capacity.

 

There are several motorway sliproads where there is insufficient space to reach this speed in a Dacia Spring 45 - such as the tight slips at Rickmansworth on the M25 - and I'm not accounting for any gradient either.

I'm not sure that junction is any different for vans but in the past have personally never had a problem when driving slow cars, such as a Fist Multipla (~15 seconds 0-60). The one that scares me (I'm also in that area, Ricky side of Watford) is coming on to the M1 at junction 6 to head up to junction 5. I've given up counting the number of times cars have still been doing 30 when they move on to the actual motorway (and this is excluding lorries).

 

But surely sensible people buy a car suited to their needs, popping to the shops and kids to school it's OK, you don't need a Range Rover Sport to ferry kids 400 yards to school !

 

you don't need a Range Rover Sport to ferry kids 400 yards to school !

You could have fooled me..

 

I placed an enquiry with the nearest dealer, who said 2 months to a test drive. According to this thread, that was only a month ago Sheesh. Feels like 6. I guess that is time-dilation under The General Theory of Labour Relativism.

 

Not sure if this of any interest or help to anyone but they did some real world consumption and charging tests

Dacia Spring (2023) : nos mesures d'autonomies

Les autonomies, les consommations et les puissances de recharge revendiquées par les constructeurs sont uniformisées à travers le protocole WLTP. Ces valeurs sont souvent différentes de celles observées dans la réalité au volant de votre voiture électrique, car de nombreux paramètres extérieurs...

www.caradisiac.com

 

The eC3 here is launched here and will give the Dacia a run for its money I think or rather it will appeal to a different sector of the young.
here is the French ad and what interests me is it can be had for 99 euro per month though you put down a large deposit.

Nouvelle ë-C3 - Citadine Électrique | Citroën FR

Explorez Nouvelle ë-C3, citadine électrique abordable : 320 km d’autonomie et recharge 20-80 % en 26 min. Configurez et réservez un essai aujourd’hui.

www.citroen.fr

 

113hp and 100kW rapid charging, a much better offer.

 

I started driving in a 1.2 Nova with 45hp. It was slow, but so long as you wrung its neck it wasnt so slow as to be dangerous. I dont ever recall a motorway sliproad being a challenge. If you didnt downshift and tried to accellerate from a high gear then absolutely it was dangerously slow, but that applies to many cars. It would easily do 70. Infact i'm sure quite a bit more than that once or twice. Google suggests a top speed of 90mph.

A light car with 45hp of e-motor is probably not as bad as you might think, as unlike an ICE, where it only produces that output at 6000rpm, the EV will produce constant output thru much of the speed range.

Many modern panel vans have ~130hp in something potentially weighing up towards 3 tonnes, and they could be towing a trailer on top too...

That said, the 65hp one is likely a much better option.

 

Hahahah..... yeah, OK

Well, it is true. The left hand lane is the lane you should drive in if you are not overtaking.

Of course, it seems a good 50% of people on the road don't know this, leading to the middle lane hogger. But that's another matter. You may be expected to merge into traffic at 70 mph on a UK motorway. That may involve going uphill in a very short distance.

I drove all over the place in a Mini, including regular long trips from London to Cornwall and back, with just 34hp! That car would happily cruise at around 60mph to 65 mph, with a top speed of 75mph, IIRC.

The classic Mini weighed around 600kg, so in power-to-weight terms it actually exceeds that of the Dacia Spring which is stated to have a kerb weight of ~1 ton. (56hp/ton vs ~43hp/ton.) Though the Mini would need some adjustment for fuel, I don't think it would be that significant.

Also, traffic speeds have increased since then since 34 hp cars were common and motorways have grown with traffic levels increasing and vehicles regularly travel upwards of 70 mph even in the left hand lane in clear conditions.

The type of car a Spring might compete with would be something like a Peugeot 108 which, when it was manufactured, was fitted with a minimum 68 hp engine, getting to 60 mph in about 12 seconds. Not fast by any means, but adequate for virtually all roads.

To be clear a 45 hp car is fine if it doesn't go near motorways and busy dual carriageways. I would be reluctant to take it outside of the city myself. As long as consumers understand this, that's fine. It's quite possible some people won't appreciate this and we'll have yet more people merging onto these roads at sub 50 mph because they don't realise the danger they pose.

 

Also, traffic speeds have increased since then since 34 hp cars were common and motorways have grown with traffic levels increasing and vehicles regularly travel upwards of 70 mph even in the left hand lane in clear conditions.

In clear conditions I am already moving out and anticipating traffic merging at junctions.

 

Quite the charging curve on the eC3 - Citroën ë-C3 charging curve & performance :: evkx.net

If that's to be believed, that's very impressive numbers for such a small LFP pack and such a cheap car.

 

I wonder if the Panda will match that?

 

The classic Mini weighed around 600kg, so in power-to-weight terms it actually exceeds that of the Dacia Spring which is stated to have a kerb weight of ~1 ton. (56hp/ton vs ~43hp/ton.) Though the Mini would need some adjustment for fuel, I don't think it would be that significant.

Let's look at the performance of the two:

The original Mini, with it's 848cc engine, managed to do 0 - 60mph in 26.5 seconds, with a top speed of 74.5mph

The Dacia Spring (base model) manages to do 0 - 60mph in 19.1 seconds, with a top speed of 78mph

The Mini Cooper (which was a pretty quick car) had a performance not far off that of the Dacia Spring base model, with a 0 to 60mph time of 17.9 seconds!

Also, traffic speeds have increased since then since 34 hp cars were common and motorways have grown with traffic levels increasing and vehicles regularly travel upwards of 70 mph even in the left hand lane in clear conditions.

Weight has almost no impact on vehicle speed. It very, very slightly increases rolling resistance, but that's such a minute part of the total drag on the vehicle at normal road speeds that it can pretty much be ignored.

 

If the inside lane is doing 70, then there will be a gap big enough for you to merge into in short order if you've made it to the end of the slip road doing 56...

No different to driving a truck, indicate, wait for a gap, merge...

 

Just for another comparison, given that our motorways are infested with "white vans", the ubiquitous Ford Transit takes 17.2 seconds to get from 0 to 60 when it's not loaded!

No doubt a base model Dacia Spring would easily see off a fully loaded Transit whilst accelerating on a slip road.

 

Just for another comparison, given that our motorways are infested with "white vans", the ubiquitous Ford Transit takes 17.2 seconds to get from 0 to 60 when it's not loaded!

No doubt a base model Dacia Spring would easily see off a fully loaded Transit whilst accelerating on a slip road.

Quite possibly, one could also argue the van isn't particularly safe there, either, and probably should stay away from these types of roads. I do wonder how many base-model Transits get sold, but I've no idea where to find that data.

As I said: there's nothing illegal about selling a slow accelerating vehicle. Provided a car can exceed 25 mph and has an engine power above 5kW (50cc equivalent) and is otherwise type-approved as a passenger car, it's permitted on UK motorways. That doesn't change my opinion about such a car being a liability in these situations!

 

There are literally millions of vehicles slower than the Dacia Spring using our motorways every day, though. All the big trucks are limited to 56mph and accelerate from zero to that speed a hell of a lot slower, so should we consider all of them a liability and get them taken off the roads?

Those vehicles are driven by trained professionals, not Joe Public though. They get MOT'd effectively every 6 weeks and drivers are strictly time-limited. So I don't think it's comparable at all.

Apart from anything else, the Dacia Spring is aimed at a different market. It's not aimed at those hurling themselves down motorways all day, every day. I can't remember the last time I drove on a motorway for any length of time, it was probably a short run on the M27, but as most know that use that road even managing to do 50mph can be an achievement at times. My wife drives a Zoe, regularly drives about 100 miles to see her mother, but the only stretch of motorway she will drive on is the Exeter bypass, maybe 10 miles if that.

There is very definitely a place for the Dacia Spring, just like there is a place for all "city cars". Just because they aren't the best at running along motorways at 70mph all day doesn't mean they are any way unacceptable. For an awful lot of people they are a very good match to their driving needs. Affordable, cheap to run and ideal for mostly short trip driving, which is what I suspect 90%+ of all cars spend their time doing in reality.

My point is not that the Spring is a bad car just because it has 45 hp. As a city car, it's perfectly acceptable to have 45 hp, it's just not good for motorways and other fast roads. And as long as consumers understand that, it won't be a problem. It certainly is an odd compromise to have made in my opinion given that competing vehicles don't seem to have difficulties with power output (e-C3 with 113hp for a similar class & price range of vehicle.) It is also unusual given that competing petrol-powered vehicles rarely drop below 60 hp in the modern age, and those all weigh less than the Spring.

I do nearly-daily drive a motorway-class road (A14 Expressway) and experience the poor standard of driving on these roads nearly every time, in particular there are a few classes of driver that I notice;

1. the middle lane driver
2. the merge onto the road at 40 mph driver
3. the merge on at 80 mph and slam straight into the third lane driver (oddly correlated with Audi and BMW badges, can't think why) - usually then proceeds to tailgate and bully others

I would say (2) and (3) are the most dangerous types, (1) is just frustrating as it reduces capacity but doesn't cause much danger. I suspect a lot of (2) is caused by inexperience/nervousness, but will certainly not be helped if the vehicle they are driving is underpowered.

 

it's just not good for motorways and other fast road

I think you are right but not for the reason of acceleration but more of range. In winter you will only get an hour's worth of range. Then you will have to charge it for 40min to get back to 80%. Then you only get 45min on the motorway before you have to do it all again. Nobody's got time for that.