Nissan ePower - Good or Evil?

38751 Views 139 Replies 25 Participants Last post by McPhee, 5 mo ago

proddick

Discussion Starter · May 8, 2018 (Edited)

I guess it is inevitable that Nissan will introduce their "ePower" serial-hybrid tech into Europe, to compete with Toyota hybrids. They can even do the same "No need to plug in" advertising

Is more hybrid choice (non plug in) good or evil? Or something in the middle?

Incidentally, I get annoyed when the press use REX to describe a car powered 100% by petrol. Talk about confusing the public - "Ooh the Nissan REX is much cheaper than the BMW i3"

Nissan to END Diesel car sales in UK and Europe | Cars UK

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donald

· #12 · May 10, 2018

Good.

By developing the mechanical parts and getting solid evolution of the design yet without building massively expensive niche cars with currently-expensive batteries (that only monied folks with a driveway can afford to buy as a hobby thing) it gets these drive systems into 'proper' mass production where the fiery furnace of real life will hone their credentials. Then it is just a case of adding batteries when it can be done at a cost the market can bear.

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donald

· #26 · May 12, 2018

richardglover said:
The e-Note uses the same electric motor as the Leaf and I have not concerned myself about it's ability to continue to give the same performance whether the SOC is 20 kWh or 1 kWh.
And when I am driving the i3 (125kw motor) and the electric range on the dial is showing about 5 miles and the little generator is doing it's job, I don't suppose the battery has more than 1.5 kWh in it by then.
Frankly it is all a mystery to me but Nissan and BMW and others have worked it out.
And the Nissan sold 100,000 e-Note in the first 11 months in Japan so the question that should be begging is, how come it is so successful when Japan's charging infrastructure is considerably better than ours?

It's [=it is] not about the charge in a battery it is about the size of the battery whether it can deliver the desired power.

For 1.5kWh to deliver 22kW is 15C, which means it will discharge within 4 minutes (1/15th of a hour). That is an extremely rapid discharge rate and a very heavy demand on the battery. The highest discharge rate among EVs to date is the Ampera (despite its [=possessive it] 'ancient' design credentials) at 7C. Most are limited to around 5C.

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donald

· #29 · May 12, 2018

We are a group of people that want EVs to work for us, don't forget. So we put our usage into the area of operation that gives us that outcome.

There are some people who don't care and just drive, and have expectations of certain performance levels. These people will notice that EVs don't always do what they want/expected.

Finally there are people who will set out to only use a thing beyond its operating envelope just to prove it can't as a means to argue to stick to what they know.

IMHO there is far too much emphasis on satiating idiots in that latter category.

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donald

· #82 · Jul 11, 2018

Mr_G said:
But it does reduce pollution a little as the engine is smaller than normal and more efficient so the mpg will be improved.

Beebaaah!

No, this is ICE thinking.

The larger the engine the more efficient it is.

Show me a counter example.

If you need an explanation then let me know.

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donald

· #83 · Jul 11, 2018

(redacted) said:
See the i3 REx

We don't know what, if anything, is the design weakness of the i3 engine. It might be an electronic matter for all we know (and probably is).

You have a point that ICE run in cycles of very short [cold] bursts is bad for it. REx engines are made more robust to this sort of operation by various measures, mainly tribological in nature in the engine and a rethink on the exhaust after-treatment (catalysts). But the design can be such that it is forced to run in certain ways while driving because the engine is independent of the driving you are actually doing, only limited my the physical time you are driving.

REx ICE engines run at wide open throttle all the time so get warm very quickly. It is not a case of pottering to the chemist while the engine is idling most of the time. It comes on and delivers motorway-cruise levels of power as soon as it 'comes on song'. They also never experience negative torque (decelerating on the engine) which has the effect of cooling an ICE.

So your concern is circumvented by;
a) being a completely different duty cycle to an ICE,
b) the differences being accommodated in engineering/system design robustness, and
c) software that can completely take control of the engine and force it into appropriate modes of operation to ensure its longevity.

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donald

· #86 · Jul 11, 2018

Mr_G said:
Thank you @donald. I don't an explanation because you assumed wrongly that I wrote that the engine is more efficient because it is smaller than normal when in fact I wrote 'smaller than normal AND is more efficient'. It is more efficient for reasons other than its size. I am well versed in the efficiency of large marine engines so your patronising reply and false assertion attempt at 'flame bait' will be discarded.

OK, agreed, sorry. Apologies.

I accept you said 'this and that' not 'this because of that'.

My bad.... misread...

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donald

· #89 · Jul 11, 2018

richardglover said:
I offer the i3 rex engine as a perfect counter example.
It is so efficient because it's purpose is to only be used for about 5% of the user's annual mileage.
This is pragmatic EV thinking.

That makes it;-
a part of an efficient machine, not necessarily
an efficient part of a machine.

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donald

· #92 · Jul 11, 2018

I still think it is a big mistake to assume everyone wants a huge battery.

I think 40~50kWh should be the standard, with additional options to 'extend' that either with more battery (no problem with that if it is really needed) or with some other energy generating device. Possibly ICE, but there are alternatives now, and there will be more options in the future that we've not even seen yet.

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donald

· #94 · Jul 11, 2018

richardglover said:
.... just that battery capacities will get bigger and bigger to the extent people will not give it any more consideration than they we do now as to the size of the petrol tank in the new car we have our eye on. You just assume it's enough to suit that model......

I am not aware that ICE engines became bigger and bigger, nor that their fuel tanks did. On the contrary they both shrank as a means to reduce the total bulk mass that goes into a car. All of that happened without consumers really giving any consideration to it, either.

What is the logic that EV packs will get bigger and heavier?

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donald

· #117 · 8 mo ago

Hitstirrer said:
Invoking the @donald hyperweapon so early is interesting.

What I would say about this is [.... lots of stuff you'd trust/expect/imagine me to say, and you know what that is already ....

].

Let me know if I'd have missed something.

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