Do you want to keep your existing granny charger or get something else?

Gaz

 

I have the original granny charger which I'll use or I also have another branded charger, same thing, different brand. So yeah, I'll need a separate housing for the granny charger so if don't get pinched.

 

So, we're only planning to keep our ampera for another 6 months and decided EV chargers are pricey. We may not go EV after 6m so we want to use granny charger as permanent method of charging. We'll charge it once per week too and we can use the outdoor plug for jet washing, gardening..etc. so it'll be handy.

So we want a outdoor plug socket, designed for EV charging if possible.

What's the best setup to go for? Do I need any upgrade on my consumer unit? I don't want for it to be a cheap setup that gets hot and potentially melts.

Just needs a dedicated radial circuit, protected in accordance with the wiring regs, specifically BS7671:2018+A2:2022 Section 722. Bare minimum protection would be some form of open PEN fault protection (an open PEN device or, far better, install an earth electrode and make the radial TT) plus a double pole Type B RCD, plus 16 A overcurrent protection with an MCB. Not a good idea to connect to an RCD protected way in the Consumer Unit, as there is a risk of the CU RCD being blinded by any DC leakage, so interfering with its ability to protect other circuits.

I would be inclined to take care to check that the plug doesn't overheat. I've found that there can be more heat build up in weatherproof outlets with the lid latched down. Finally, check to ensure the weatherproof outlet can accept the larger plug often fitted to portable charge points - some won't let these large plugs plug in fully, the cable support may catch on the raised section..

 

Make sure that your outdoor socket is on its own radial circuit with its own connection to the consumer unit and is not a spur off the ring. That is probably one of the best things to do to mitigate risk when using a granny lead. If you can also give it its own RCBO rather than an MCB and using a shared RCD.

 

Something like this?

Amazon.co.uk

Combined with this?

Masterplug Chargepoint Home EV Charger, Mode 2, 2.3kW Charging via a UK 3-pin socket: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders. Buy Masterplug Chargepoint Home EV Charger, Mode 2, 2.3kW Charging via a UK 3-pin socket at Amazon UK.

www.amazon.co.uk

Or does the second link do the same thing as first ? Just with a socket.

 

Isn't it gonna be less safe to charge once per week for a larger continuous length of time rather than every day for a much shorter amount of time each time? Less chance of hot plugs?

 

Probably. Time does seem to be a significant factor when it comes to plug and outlet overheating when using a portable charge point. Better to charge "little and often", I suspect.

 

Thanks for all the comments, guys.

But could anyone point me to the items I'd need? Links? Just so I have something to show an electrician who will be fitting it. I don't want to end up paying for a low end setup.

 

All electricians have to have an understanding of the wiring regs, and the requirements are detailed there, as mentioned above, it's in BS7671:2018+A2:2022 Section 722 (BS7671 are the wiring regs).

The regs require that a circuit installed for charging (of any type) be a radial, protected by a double pole Type B, EV or F RCD (or the newer Type B RCBO), that suitable over-current protection is fitted to suit the cable rating, and that, if the supply is anything other than TT, that some form of open PEN fault protection be included.

 

I'd be tempted to charge at 6A several times a week so there is little problem with heat build up.
Depending on the model the current is set as follows.
For MY2012 cars the 6A is set on the original granny lead. 3rd party leads are normally 10A only.
For MY2013 (and the rare 2014) the charge defaults to 6A and is set on the infotainment console. This controls any brand of granny lead.

For ease of use an earth spike, ie TT earthing, removes the need for a PEN fault detector just leaving the correct RCD and MCB to be fitted.

 

Taking a radial from there should be relatively easy, as it's an all-RCBO CU, so there's no risk of blinding a shared RCD with DC. I'd be inclined to just fit a 16 A Eaton Memera B curve MCB in a CU spare way, and run that radial to a protection box somewhere convenient (could be close to the outlet). The protection box would need a Type B RCD plus some form of open PEN fault protection. If the area is outside the zone of influence of any conductive underground services, then fitting an earth electrode is the better way to protect things.

If you choose to opt for a Commando/BS EN 60309 connector then you could consider using a modified caravan hook up, something like this, but fitted with a Type B RCD in place of the fitted RCBO, plus add an earth electrode to give open PEN fault protection: 16A 1 Way Caravan Hook Up Point (Single Width)

 

What's interesting about all of this, is all of the details about the correct RCBO and type of device with open PEN protection. Etc, that the person in the street will not give a crap about or even understand.
just how many people have got an EV and use the granny cable through a window plugged into a normal house socket?
lots of people will know they need to get a wall box fitted for a faster charge, but they probably don't know about needing to have a dedicated 13amp socket for charging, with all of these technical details.

 

Been an issue with safety regulation for years, a mix of regs changing, new appliances/equipment coming along that pose different risks, ageing supply infrastructure that creates potential risks, failure of those in the trade to stay up to date with the regs, plus the fairly large number of semi-skilled people (i.e. 6 week college wonders) undertaking work way above their competence level.

Although the wiring regs took years to catch up (the present regs date back to 2018), there was guidance in place from the IET (the people responsible for the wiring regs) since 2013. All charge points installed since 2013 should have followed that guidance, which did state that this additional protection was required for any charge point outlet. The regs are very clear now on this, this is the excerpt from Section 722 showing the range of outlets covered by the requirement to provide additional safety protection:

In the above excerpt, a BS1363-2 outlet is what's colloquially called a 13 A socket. A BS EN 60309-2 socket is colloquially called a Commando. A BS EN 62196-2 socket is colloquially called a Type 2 socket.

 

Some of the regs are not backwards enforced otherwise we would all have to be paying to have our consumer units replaced and everything updated to new regs.
When you look at details on granny chargers they all say suitable for plugging into a domestic 13amp socket as most are limited to 10amps or less.
That is what most EV car buyers are going to look at and go on.

 

None of the regs are ever backwards enforced, never have been, AFAIK. There is an issue with a lot of earlier charge points not complying with the IET guidance note from 2013 that had the power of the regs at the time, though. In order to claim the grant the installer was supposed to adhere to the IET guidance note. Sadly, very few did, they chose to cut corners and not fit the required protection. They knew no one would ever check to see if what they'd done was safe, so they pretty much all got away with doing this.

Much the same happened with the most recent grant scheme, but by then there was a greater volume of installations, and OZEV soon got to hear about the shoddy jobs, so they implemented an audit system, to try and ensure the regs are being complied with. I have my own views about the way that was done, suffice to say it's not great.

The portable charge point conundrum and the safety of older 13 A outlets is one that cannot be fixed by regulation. I'm not even sure it can be fixed by creating a mandatory requirement for EICRs, as exists in the rental sector, as I;m not sure an EICR would detect a failing outlet. The problem is an inherent failing in the design of the BS1363-2 plug, exacerbated by changes made to the design to provide better touch safety, and exacerbated still further by there being no real controls over the quality of what's sold here, in terms of safety through life.

 

What is difficult to understand is the statement about not wanting something cheap followed by a seeming willingness to spend almost as much on a 3 pin socket as a proper charge point could be installed for with the advantage of it being ready if an EV is chosen in 6 months.
For the sake of it, one would assume the installation could be done with sufficient materials to later replace the socket with one of those cheap CPs that require everything to be separate but install a 13a socket alongside a 32a Commando socket and replace the 3 pin plug on one of the granny chargers with a commando plug thus avoiding the liklihood of melting the 3 pin.
Assuming there might be an issue with potential overload if someone decided to use 10a and 32a at the same time then maybe the Commando should only be 16a but in any event the additional cost of running 6mmCSA should not be an issue andcthen the job is done once whilst covering any future change of plans like replacing the pair of sockets with proper EVSE or buying a non EV.

Gaz

 

Agreed, when looking at the regs, it doesn't seem to matter if its a 7.4KW charger or 13amp socket that's going in, the protection devices are the same, just the cable size is smaller on a 13amp socket due to the lower current draw, but I would use larger cable anyway due to how long it would be drawing that increased current for.
So if going for it then just as you've said fit a 13amp socket and 32amp Commando socket ready for anything then.

 

I am having my CP installed tomorrow... I am also having a new radial circuit put in so that if the CP fails I still have a safe, sensible granny charger option until I get the CP fixed or replaced. For that I am needing 2 cables... a 6mm to the CP and smaller, separate, cable to the socket. Both are armoured cables run together in the same channel.

 

What I did was I got an electrician over and I told him I need a socket that can handle 2000W for 20 hours in a row and then he sorted it. He put in something a bit more robust than usual.

One issue I do have is the weight of the charger pulls on the socket and can ever so slightly pull the socket out of the wall. You can design for this or better still have the heavy charger resting on a table or a stool or something.

I can never detect any heat.

I recommend you try a few hours and after detecting no heat try all day while in the house checking on it and if that still works OK with no heat you can start doing things like leaving it on when you go out or leaving it on overnight..

Just make short that you are making the right long term decision, however. As long as it's future proofed, a charger may make sense long term even if you don't need it in 6 months. It's also a nice feature for people visiting you.

 

Doesn't mitigate the electric shock risk here in the UK though. Might be better in terms of plug overheating being mitigated to some degree, but if the RCD protection isn't working (because it's not DC tolerant) or the vehicle body becomes live because there is a network fault risk that hasn't been mitgated, then there is still a significant risk.

 

So, we're only planning to keep our ampera for another 6 months and decided EV chargers are pricey. We may not go EV after 6m so we want to use granny charger as permanent method of charging. We'll charge it once per week too and we can use the outdoor plug for jet washing, gardening..etc. so it'll be handy.

So we want a outdoor plug socket, designed for EV charging if possible.

What's the best setup to go for? Do I need any upgrade on my consumer unit? I don't want for it to be a cheap setup that gets hot and potentially melts. I've got the newer ampera where you change from 6a to 10a inside the car. I've used 10a on a indoor socket for 6+ hours without any heating issues.
Comando
Consumer unit attached. Ideally looking for advice on what parts to use/whats the best setup and also a rough cost. I won't be undertaking this myself as im not qualified to do so, so i'll be using a leccy.

Hi if the granny charger is fitted with a 13amp plug, try fitting a Commando plug and socket on the socket you are using. It may not get warm/hot like the 13 amp plug, but it does depend on what else is on that cable.