Oh man.

All I have to say is if you manage to do this without setting yourself or the car on fire, or bricking the car, I'll fly to wherever you live and buy you a beer.

I would certainly not mess with the disconnect setup - it is there for a reason and fire services etc will count on that to work as intended.

 

You've grossly underestimated what is involved on the electronics an HV side.

 

I can't even...

🤦‍♀️

 

So, my question is if someone has already tried something similar?

My suspicion is the answer is No. People have probably dreamed but never got around to it. I suspect that if you have the time and the expertise to do this you'd be better getting additional paid employment and spending the extra money earnt on an i3 REx where someone else has done all of the work for you.

If you are doing this for the learning experience Emile at Muxsan has done work with his CANBridge on the Zoe so might be able to offer some advice with specific issues and @Toomba seems to be able to fix most things.

 

You cynics.... it's already been done

 

Its the new Defender BEV, slightly disguised.

 

In the era where batterries are more and more affordable, more energy dense etc - doing this seems counterproductive.

A 55kWh battery can be fit in the OEM battery box without modifying it. This capacity allows you to drive, day and night, a Zoe. Much easier, safer, more space in the boot and any other argument proves this.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

 

A 55kWh battery can be fit in the OEM battery box without modifying it. This capacity allows you to drive, day and night, a Zoe.

For around 200 miles, certainly. Then you are stuck without anything more than 22kW charging unless you fit a CCS or CHAdeMo. But it should be more than adequate for most people in that type of car.

 

I drive a ZE40, if you can call my car like that. Have not encountered a destination I could not drive my car to.

As for charging during driving, it's possible.

But your set up lacks safety features, you could easily weld shut your contactor. Think about safety as well.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

 

I drive a ZE40, if you can call my car like that. Have not encountered a destination I could not drive my car to.

We have to get to our vacation home where there's only one questionable 11kW charger on strech of more than 200km and the terrain climbs more than 900m, so even ZE40 in the winter is questionable if it could reach destination if that one single charger is down.

As for charging during driving, it's possible.

But your set up lacks safety features, you could easily weld shut your contactor. Think about safety as well.

That is very usable info, thanks!

What should I do for safety in order to prevent welding the contactor?
Is the problem only if genny is running while car is turned on or being shut of (which can be prevented manually by turning it on/off in correct order)?

 

Went today to Car Inspection Station and found out one interesting thing - although Zoe is not allowed to tow the trailer, towing hitch can be installed for other usages like bike or cargo carrier.

Seems like a much better genny location than in the trunk or on the roof.

 

Seriously, where to mount the generator is the least of your worries. The best thing you can do is brick the car, that way you won't cause any further injury to yourself or others. To do this safely needs deep knowledge of the car systems and ability to modify the programming logic. Doing it unsafely might work, but I very much doubt it's legal and certainly not wise.

 

I can’t see anything wrong with towing a running generator with a fuel tank, the is supplying DC power directly to the car.

No.

Nothing.

All fine.

 

You are not alone

 

I was thinking, if you made this thing steam powered then it could use renewable wood pellets.

Just a thought.

 

You are right, but it's more complicated - maybe wood gasifier to power the generator would be better and still green / renewable.

 

Not sure if these guys ever got it working: Product — EP Tender
They were proposing a generator in a trailer or a battery in a trailer - can't see the generator option now.

 

Not sure if these guys ever got it working: Product — EP Tender
They were proposing a generator in a trailer or a battery in a trailer - can't see the generator option now.

I can absolutely see the use case for this. Not necessarily with a Zoe, and not in such a DIY way as was proposed by the OP. But if someone had a solution to make long haul towing with a larger EV that has a usable tow capacity a feasible thing, I would buy it. Range will always drop massively with any sizeable towed vehicle (large caravan ). Yes I know there are micro-caravans targeted at the EV towing market but they all require you to be very small and have take little or no stuff with you on holiday. So in practice, if you have a large towed vehicle - you don't tow it with an EV (unless you are willing to take the same hair-shirt approach to journeys as the EV pioneers did 10-12 years back).

If you could safely put a range extender in the towed vehicle, that can safely range extends the EV for long trips, you've solved the "EV's aren't usable in practice for long haul and/or heavy trailer towing" problem. This problem is the exact reason I still retain a diesel 4x4 for towing my caravan on holiday. For all other trips, I use an EV.

 

I dont know about Q210 but my R240 has a unused 400 V connector for PTC heater, I use it to tap in to 400 V bus and run the house with my 30 kWh SitePro GE ups.
This would be perfect for your extender, no need to modify anithing, you only need to buy pins for the connector .
Zoe is fine with charging or discharging through this connector to about 20-25 A , I use it often, it has 32 A fusses inside and it is energised only when you turne the car on and 5 minutes after you turn it off, so it's mutch safer then emergency disconnect.
The only thing to worry about is never shut down the car when there is external power source charging the car, if you do that you will brick the car and will need the diagnostic computer to clear the fault.
I have done it one time

 

Please don't do this. You want to connect directly to the high voltage system without can bus? Yeah there is HV positive and negative in the safety pull out in the drivers foot well. Literally full pack voltage right there so if you pull it out and then slip and put your fingers in it when you're not wearing the correct safety gear then you'll go off like a firework.

There are only big fuses on the HV system, not breakers like you have at home. You'll die long before the fuse blows.

 

So if you are a Renault mechanic and you slip and put your fingers in?

 

They would be wearing high voltage safety gloves.

 

Then that's what we need as well, and we could be safe too.

I think it would be good if there were safety instructions available rather than a blanket "don't touch!"

Might save lives eh?

 

Then that's what we need as well, and we could be safe too.

I think it would be good if there were safety instructions available rather than a blanket "don't touch!"

Might save lives eh?

You can get safety instructions, its called Level 4 hybrid and EV training. You can't compress all that knowledge onto a sticker though im afraid.

 

In your opinion, what sort of size document would be needed, like how many pages to make at least a safety manual so that a person who understood electrical things quite well wouldn't need to guess and risk harming themselves or the vehicle?
I genuinely think it would be a good thing to help people be safe when they work on their cars. To say "just don't touch" when it's not more dangerous than any other electrical installation of similar voltage is wasted on people who wouldn't touch anyway and to withhold safety information is dangerous to those will do it anyway.

 

You've already demonstrated the point by saying its not more dangerous than any other installation with a similar voltage because if you consider a 240v home system as being "similar" then its really not. Home electrics have circuit breakers that cut off the power before you die. 350-400v EV batteries are protected by a fuse that is around 300amps and your body is not conductive enough to blow that so if you connect your skin with the HV battery then it'll kill you and it'll hurt the whole time you're dying.

Cheers.

 

Of course household is not the same voltage as an EV but in your house even a 2 amp fuse is not going to trip if you touch a live part so whether we're talking 300a or 2a fuses, they are there to protect the house. Don't expect any personal protection from an overcurrent device.

I do accept there is usually an RCD to protect people in a house and not in the car but then again, RCDs are not by any means guaranteed to trip just because you touch a live wire, for example. Depends as I'm sure you know on many factors.

When you work on household electrics you should always cut the power before you start whether there is an RCD or not.

The same should apply to cars of course.

A quick question, do you earth the car before working on it?

 

Of course household is not the same voltage as an EV but in your house even a 2 amp fuse is not going to trip if you touch a live part so whether we're talking 300a or 2a fuses, they are there to protect the house. Don't expect any personal protection from an overcurrent device.

I do accept there is usually an RCD to protect people in a house and not in the car but then again, RCDs are not by any means guaranteed to trip just because you touch a live wire, for example. Depends as I'm sure you know on many factors.

When you work on household electrics you should always cut the power before you start whether there is an RCD or not.

The same should apply to cars of course.

A quick question, do you earth the car before working on it?

Hi, no you dont earth a car before working on it because other than while charging the car is not meant to have a reference to ground and it being earthed wouldnt stop you being hurt. You hit the nail on the head when you said you'd cut the power first - cars have big orange safety cutouts which is great, however as I think we said above when the fuse is out in a Zoe there is full pack voltage in that socket and if you're working on the battery then you've got high voltage right in front of you and no breakers to save you.

Pic of my morning so far...

Cheers.

 

I was asking as I am wondering how a circuit would be made across you in terms of a return path... I guess you would do some serious damage to your fingers though if you touch both poles! ..Hence the gloves.

Cool picture, that's your day-job then?

 

Cool picture, that's your day-job then?

Yes I fix EVs, spend a lot of time helping independent garages with diagnostics. I work for Hevra.

Cheers

 

May I ask what diagnostic kit you would use on a Zoe?

 

I have an autel tablet but it depends what you need - icarsoft coverage is good for fault codes but the live data isnt as good, I started off with icarsoft.

Cheers

 

I had a charging issue on the Zoe and I wanted to see where in the BCB the fault may have been. I saw a video of a garage repair and the guy was saying the diagnostic showed that it was a specific component of the BCB that was at fault which is the level I would like to have. He didn't mention what kit he had and I can't justify Renault.net subscription but the icarsoft i907 is affordable or is it something higher up the scale that i'd need?

 

It's been done a long time ago.

 

Good project. Although I didn't get from that video what the ECU would do about drawing current from and regen charging with two different batteries. It would be good to know how that guy got the various systems to "accept" and work with the other battery or maybe that is not an issue. My Zoe has two battery banks with two BMSs I believe. If you just paralleled another battery on top I would expect issues.

 

I think that the main reason he got it to work was that it was a from the ground build up. He didn't have to deal with the manufacturers system.

There are several videos of the conversion. You have to dig deep in his videos, it was done ages ago, but they are extremely interesting.

 

A genny, a petrol can and a granny charger in the boot are going to be a heck of a lot simpler to arrange than this frankenstein idea of messing with HV lines in the car.

 

I have never tried this but I am pretty sure the car wouldn't charge whilst moving.

 

On a Zoe, for AC the motor is used as part of the rectification - so I can't see how that would work.
For DC I guess it would be possible if the batteries were being charged in the same way that regeneration happens when you brake. So if extender was providing the right voltage in parallel to the motor and batteries - it could charge the batteries when the motor was taking less than the extender was outputting (in the same way that a 12V battery charger works in all cars).
I suspect there would be some serious software updates required to stop it barfing though!