I'd like mine to be tuned to G Major, that way I won't need a capo.

Here's the tweet you're talking about: nice chart of power/torque against motor speed to look at.

 

As its direct drive, I assume they'd just be re-mapping throttle position to power, and perhaps removing some of the power limiting at the bottom end, allowing more wheel spin?
Or perhaps making the throttle regen stronger? I assume there is a reason regen stops at low speeds.
Or enabling a higher top speed (not sure when I'd use that) which could damage a motor?

 

I'm of opinion that if I want a car that is faster will buy something else than a Zoe.
By the time you finish the upgrade you will have spent almost the same as a 2nd hand Tesla

 

Im not sure what they can tune, if you can convince the car to give the motor more power then it won't last as long. They could possibly remap the lower power so that you can do burnouts, but that wouldn't really be a great benefit...

 

I agree. If at all, it's a pretty stupid thing to do. The motor is torque limited at low speed, to avoid motor coils or cam tooth being destroyed. It's power limited at mid speed to avoid overheating the motor (which admittedly can be "overclocked" for a short while) or blowing up the power electronics which are after all sized to, well, a certain max power level. Going above the maximum speed is what really scares me to be honest. Centrifugal forces in the motor core are pretty massive and when something goes wrong the damage can be really bad.

To go faster, basically you need a different gearing ratio. That would eat in acceleration. And of course range at higher speeds comes down very, very quickly.

I think they probably designed the thing to a nice compromise.

Fun idea, but no thanks

Now if you want to do fun things with your ZOE, a far better idea IMHO is to put it on a diet. About two years ago we had some video's posted here about EV street rallying. One of them was from FullyCharged. That was already quite thrilling!

Edit: more than 3 years ago I did some calculations. https://canze.fisch.lu/torque-acceleration-powerrrrr/

 

. If at all, it's a pretty stupid thing to do. The motor is torque limited at low speed, to avoid motor coils or cam tooth being destroyed. It's power limited at mid speed to avoid overheating the motor (which admittedly can be "overclocked" for a short while) or blowing up the power electronics which are after all sized to, well, a certain max power level. Going above the maximum speed is what really scares me to be honest. Centrifugal forces in the motor core are pretty massive and when something goes wrong the damage can be really bad.

I expect it’s more to do with the front wheels losing grip and spinning should any more torque be applied.

Remember this is a shopping car that can’t be seen to upstage the ICE super-minis.

 

I’d be interested

When I spoke to my remapper he said it should be easy as it’s just changing throttle position bs power delivery

Can’t wait

JJ

 

More torque at higher speed would be good (assuming it’s not aero limiting acceleration above 50mph).

Renault did Goodwood with a racing Zoe a few years ago and I was told it was one of the fastest cars there.

There is also a rallying Zoe.

Know you can get Gaz coilovers so atleast the suspension can be properly setup.

Change from drums at the rear also needed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

More torque at higher speeds unfortunately equates to more power. The motor could probably handle it for short bursts, as the limitation would be thermal if not going over the maximum torque that is already applied at low speed now. The problem is the entire electronics train all the way into the battery. The battery is fused @ 250A (100 kW), and the inverter electronics are most probably right sized. It would be so fun though!

Less weight at equal torque does increase the acceleration too.

Educate me, I am totally missing the point about changing the power output / pedal position curve. That would do absolutely noting would it? Seems to me like turning up the fan to get "the wind in my hair" experience?

 

I’m sure most of the Zoe parts are Clio 4

I’m waiting a bit to look at lowering mine

JJ

 

Well I beat a new R32 off the line the other day

He was v impressed as we chatted at the lights

JJ

 

@Problemchild AFAIK most of the suspension is based on the Megane due to the extra weight of thebattery.

 

Changing the pedal sensitivity curve only changes the pedal behaviour when "half pressed". When you fully pressed, it's the exact same tuned or not

 

Not really

Mainly because you can’t go to fully pressed without going through every other position first - which has a corresponding power delivery setting

Having been the primary development car for the first true map for a smart Brabus, I can testify that throttle response is a big part of a map and I even asked for it to be toned down as it was too harsh when on and off the throttle trying to balance speed etc in an around town

JJ

 

The two bits I find annoying, is regen stops, then starts supplying power again (rather than letting car come to a stop) at low speed, and the power curve increases power supplied as you get faster. To continue to deliver the same power to the wheels (judging by what the dashboard says) as you accelerate, you have to gradually release the throttle.
I suppose you should be able to increase the regen when releasing, or reducing throttle position (so more like the new "B" mode or the i-pedal on the Leaf) which could be interesting, so you wouldn't have to use the brake pedal to increase re-gen.
Might be interesting, but I'd be naiive to think that there would be an increase in power.

 

If you want that can perform as a sport car and you don't want to go for the MP1 maybe you want to try this

Nissan LEAF Nismo | Specialist Cars Nissan

Check out the Nissan Nismo LEAF that has just been unveiled in Japan. We are in love and you will be too.

www.john-clark.co.uk

 

A remap isn’t just about more power - it’s how the power is applied to create a faster accelerating car

As for power, I guess it depends if the delivery of power is restricted on the Zoe at any point by the ECU to make for a more economical car - like the 87mph limiter

JJ

 

A remap isn’t just about more power - it’s how the power is applied to create a faster accelerating car

As for power, I guess it depends if the delivery of power is restricted on the Zoe at any point by the ECU to make for a more economical car - like the 87mph limiter

JJ

I am not entirely sure if that is a reply to my post. In an earlier post I described in pretty much detail where the present limits are and why. I have no comprehension of what you mean with "how power is applied". It is x kW, and then current speed dictates the torque. Physics. I fully understand that remapping changes the feel of the car and thus controlability. And therefor, in theory could "win the race". But only on controlabilty, not on power/torque itself.

A somewhat strange comparison would be changing the double tap in your shower with a thermostatically controlled one. Much more comfort, and that is a true value, but no way could it make the pipes deliver more water. (yes yes I know, valve diameters etc, you get my point).

 

Assuming there isn’t a valve that controls the rate of water delivery before the mixer (like there is on most systems now)

If the Zoe battery is delivering at the max rate then yes you are correct.

Sorry I don’t know if that’s the case but if it is the case then no, you won’t get any extra bhp/torque

Also there will be no additional acceleration if all that power is delivered instantly when you slam your foot to the floor

But tbh I don’t think that’s the case. Surely to maintain range and reliability, the manufacturer would limit its power delivery in both max and rate of delivery?

My Brabus left the factory with 177bhp

The manufacturer limited the fuel flow and air flow (compressed at the turbo) even though the pump, pipes, injectors etc etc could deliver more. It was all limited by the ECU.

Change those enforced limits and my car now has closer to 220bhp

Just by opening the taps before the main rap (throttle pedal)

I don’t know what happens in the Zoe systems though

JJ

 

See post 6, that describes exactly what it does: from standstill, max torque until max power is reached (takes about 2 seconds), then max power until max RPM is reached.

My premise is of course that the max torque can't be exceeded (bend something), max power can't be exceeded (overheat components, esp power electronics), and RPM can't be exceeded (stuff exploding). Now if any of these three limits can be sacrificed, i.e. against longevity or maintenance ("increase water pressure close to breaking"), of course things are going to go faster.

But, I was "arguing" over pedal-power mapping, not over "more amps" ("fuel").

I think we're on the same page

 

Sorry - only went back up to your 2nd post at post #9

If that is truly the case and the Zoe is at max performance then nothing anyone does will make it better (bar fitting better hardware)

JJ

 

I assume that the ECU software controls the amount of power that the electronics will deliver to the motor at any given speed. If you know where to make changes, you could change the amount of power available in different places.

My Zoe is a bit slow to pick up speed from a stand still and doesn't seem to give full acceleration until about 20 MPH. I understand why that is. I would like a bit more of that maximum torque at lower speeds. Maybe that's just me.

In terms of max power, there are 3 physical limitations. One is too much torque snapping pieces of metal. I obviously don't want that. Two is the heat generated in the motor. The beauty of motors is that when they're cold, you can put an awful lot of power in, for a short time. On the road, 10 seconds is plenty. I'd like an "overboost" function for 10s if the motor is cool enough. Three is the capacity of the electronics to deliver the extra power. Again, I don't want to pop anything by putting too much current through it, but if it is cool enough for a few seconds of extra power, that would do me just fine.

My woes with reliability make me worry that a Renault is perhaps not the best base vehicle to do this on.

 

Although Renault Clio’s can be heavily modded

JJ

 

What do you mean by step down?

there will be a power curve surely

If the car applies all it’s power in the first nano second then you are gonna break things.

In your example of being in neutral, you are assuming that there is a mechanical connection between the pedal and a mechanical potentiometer or similar.

What there is in fact is an ECU that still decides how to apply the power - like it cuts the power when the wheels spin or any other number of scenarios.

My point is, how the ECU applies that power could be adjusted over speed and time and throttle position.

JJ

 

@Smart51 Not trying to be argumentative but

• your #3 is simply not true. Overloaded electronics can and do die immediately if overloaded. Of course there is this "oh but can't I just do a little bit more then" area, but it's not a matter of "oh there is enough heat capacity in the metal". It's the lack of transfer that does the immediate blow-up
• you are forgetting the max RPM. Centrifugal forces can kill the rotor.

@Problemchild is right. The ECU does keep the torque limited from standstill. The motor and electronics are totally capable of ripping up the gearbox at low RPM. It could still be a itsy tiny bit faster though to use the D trick, as we don't really know of the pedal does power or torque control. To me it feels like a blend. I am honestly not sure.

 

I can’t imagine the design principles being any different to an ICE vehicle.

1. Power delivery can be higher but kept at a level that manages both efficiency and reliability (over hundreds of thousands of miles)

2. Each component in the car has a large safety margin on top of the peak forces. E.g. a wheel bearing is designed not to deal with cornering forces with a margin but to deal with cornering fast with 4 fat guys and then it hits a pot hole. (Electrical cabling is not quite as over engineered I would assume but it must have a decent margin in there)

JJ

 

Take the back seats out - easy

JJ

 

That rally ZOE had a LOT of weight taken out. And some in (roll bar)

As for margin, that is what I meant with "Now if any of these three limits can be sacrificed, i.e. against longevity or maintenance ("increase water pressure close to breaking"), of course things are going to go faster."