[iomagico]

If brand new, should have at least 1 yr warranty on it?

Yes I have the warranty for sure.
But issue happened after my friend accidentally crashed the plug....
would be nice to have a schematic and bypass the temp controller pcb.

 

[adamos]

An owner of one of these decided to swap the 13A plug for a Commando one, only to discover after cutting it off that there are 6 wires going into the plug! I acquired this, and have repaired it with a chunky new 13A Masterplug and have fitted the 2 thermistors inside where they belong. I'm posting what I've learned so as to help anyone else with a damaged/destroyed plug, or wanting to do the same kind of plug-swap, so they can buy they correct valued thermistors if required.

The original owner carefully disected away the plug, and rescued both thermistors & the fragments of wire, enough for me to be certain of the connections. Thank you!

In addition to the usual 3 wires, the cable from the EVSE has 3 more coloured Black, Purple/Grey, and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Grey.
I believe the thermistors to be Vishay NTCLE100E3103 which are 10k Ohms at 25C. Colour code Brown-Black-Orange.

Type-2 plug EVSE (from a Bmw, probably i3) with new plug fitted:
View attachment 125434

Underside of EVSE:
View attachment 125436

Wire fragments:
View attachment 125435

13A Masterplug
View attachment 125437

A very small amount of trimming was needed inside the Masterplug to not trap the thermistor wires. In the Rhs view one thermistor has been tucked beside the Neutral wire, and the other thermistor sits above the fuse.

I checked the resistance of the 2 thermistors carefully, letting them cool slowly from 100C on my K-thermocouple-controlled Heated Base Plate. I believe the thermocuple temperature will have been at most 2 degrees C cooler than the thermocouple reported, and that reports in 1C intervals. So there's a fair bit of variation in the resistances I measured while the temp controller (an industrial Toho unit) was reporting a single temperature.
Here's a table of the max and min resistances (Ohms) I measured at a series of temps, and also the nominal resistance expected from a Vishay NTCLE100E3103 thermistor datasheet:

Temp Min Max NTCLE100E3103
100 707 759 677
95 800 847 786
90 908 957 915
85 1046 1099 1070
80 1224 1294 1256
70 1680 1768 1753
60 2380 2502 2490
50 3437 3556 3605
40 5044 5353 5330
30 7470 7800 8059
25 9187 9675 10000
24 9642 10110 (no data)

Given the variability in thermistors (the 2 I tested were usually about 30 Ohms apart, and must have been near-as-dammit identical temps) I consider this a pretty close match, certainly accurate enough for this Vishay thermistor to be used as an excellent replacement for a damaged original. My thanks to Farnell (& Cpc, part of the same group) for making the datasheets & parts available.

how match NTCLE100E3103G

 

[HandyAndy]

To buy one of these in uk. you can go to a supplier of electronic components. E.g.
https://uk.farnell.com and put NTCLE100E3103G into the search box. Hope this helps.

 

[Carpozed]

I should have looked at this post before cutting my granny charger. This is a very useful post even with hindsight.
Thinking this through would I be right in assuming that the plug can be changed to a commando plug and the thermistors are added if I wanted to do that?

 

[HandyAndy]

I should have looked at this post before cutting my granny charger. This is a very useful post even with hindsight.
Thinking this through would I be right in assuming that the plug can be changed to a commando plug and the thermistors are added if I wanted to do that?

Yup should work.

 

[Giglio]

An owner of one of these decided to swap the 13A plug for a Commando one, only to discover after cutting it off that there are 6 wires going into the plug! I acquired this, and have repaired it with a chunky new 13A Masterplug and have fitted the 2 thermistors inside where they belong. I'm posting what I've learned so as to help anyone else with a damaged/destroyed plug, or wanting to do the same kind of plug-swap, so they can buy they correct valued thermistors if required.

The original owner carefully disected away the plug, and rescued both thermistors & the fragments of wire, enough for me to be certain of the connections. Thank you!

In addition to the usual 3 wires, the cable from the EVSE has 3 more coloured Black, Purple/Grey, and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Grey.
I believe the thermistors to be Vishay NTCLE100E3103 which are 10k Ohms at 25C. Colour code Brown-Black-Orange.

Type-2 plug EVSE (from a Bmw, probably i3) with new plug fitted:
View attachment 125434

Underside of EVSE:
View attachment 125436

Wire fragments:
View attachment 125435

13A Masterplug
View attachment 125437

A very small amount of trimming was needed inside the Masterplug to not trap the thermistor wires. In the Rhs view one thermistor has been tucked beside the Neutral wire, and the other thermistor sits above the fuse.

Ho controllato attentamente la resistenza dei 2 termistori, lasciandoli raffreddare lentamente da 100°C sulla mia piastra di base riscaldata controllata da termocoppia K. Credo che la temperatura della termocoppia sarà stata al massimo di 2 gradi C più fredda rispetto a quella riportata dalla termocoppia e che si riporta a intervalli di 1 °C. Quindi c'è una discreta variazione nelle resistenze che ho misurato mentre il controller della temperatura (un'unità Toho industriale) riportava una singola temperatura.
Ecco una tabella delle resistenze massime e minime (Ohm) che ho misurato a una serie di temperature, e anche la resistenza nominale prevista da una scheda tecnica del termistore Vishay NTCLE100E3103:

Temp Min Max NTCLE100E3103
100 707 759 677
95 800 847 786
90 908 957 915
85 1046 1099 1070
80 1224 1294 1256
70 1680 1768 1753
60 2380 2502 2490
50 3437 3556 3605
40 5044 5353 5330
30 7470 7800 8059
25 9187 9675 10000
24 9642 10110 (nessun dato)

Data la variabilità dei termistori (i 2 che ho testato erano di solito a circa 30 Ohm l'uno dall'altro, e dovevano essere quasi identici a temperature identiche) lo considero una corrispondenza abbastanza stretta, certamente abbastanza accurata da poter utilizzare questo termistore Vishay come un eccellente sostituzione di un originale danneggiato. I miei ringraziamenti a Farnell (& Cpc, parte dello stesso gruppo) per aver reso disponibili le schede tecniche e le parti.
[/CITAZIONE]

Ciao Andt,
grazie per le tue informazioni molto utili. o lo stesso problema, mi hanno tagliato il cavo schuko, ma oltre ai fili di alimentazione monofase, ho i tre fili ma di colori diversi: viola, bianco e arancio. Hai qualche suggerimento? Grazie saluti Gianfranco

An owner of one of these decided to swap the 13A plug for a Commando one, only to discover after cutting it off that there are 6 wires going into the plug! I acquired this, and have repaired it with a chunky new 13A Masterplug and have fitted the 2 thermistors inside where they belong. I'm posting what I've learned so as to help anyone else with a damaged/destroyed plug, or wanting to do the same kind of plug-swap, so they can buy they correct valued thermistors if required.

The original owner carefully disected away the plug, and rescued both thermistors & the fragments of wire, enough for me to be certain of the connections. Thank you!

In addition to the usual 3 wires, the cable from the EVSE has 3 more coloured Black, Purple/Grey, and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Grey.
I believe the thermistors to be Vishay NTCLE100E3103 which are 10k Ohms at 25C. Colour code Brown-Black-Orange.

Type-2 plug EVSE (from a Bmw, probably i3) with new plug fitted:
View attachment 125434

Underside of EVSE:
View attachment 125436

Wire fragments:
View attachment 125435

13A Masterplug
View attachment 125437

A very small amount of trimming was needed inside the Masterplug to not trap the thermistor wires. In the Rhs view one thermistor has been tucked beside the Neutral wire, and the other thermistor sits above the fuse.

I checked the resistance of the 2 thermistors carefully, letting them cool slowly from 100C on my K-thermocouple-controlled Heated Base Plate. I believe the thermocuple temperature will have been at most 2 degrees C cooler than the thermocouple reported, and that reports in 1C intervals. So there's a fair bit of variation in the resistances I measured while the temp controller (an industrial Toho unit) was reporting a single temperature.
Here's a table of the max and min resistances (Ohms) I measured at a series of temps, and also the nominal resistance expected from a Vishay NTCLE100E3103 thermistor datasheet:

Temp Min Max NTCLE100E3103
100 707 759 677
95 800 847 786
90 908 957 915
85 1046 1099 1070
80 1224 1294 1256
70 1680 1768 1753
60 2380 2502 2490
50 3437 3556 3605
40 5044 5353 5330
30 7470 7800 8059
25 9187 9675 10000
24 9642 10110 (no data)

Given the variability in thermistors (the 2 I tested were usually about 30 Ohms apart, and must have been near-as-dammit identical temps) I consider this a pretty close match, certainly accurate enough for this Vishay thermistor to be used as an excellent replacement for a damaged original. My thanks to Farnell (& Cpc, part of the same group) for making the datasheets & parts available.

HI Andy, thank you for your very useful information. I have the same problem, they cut my schuko cable, but in addition to the single-phase power supply wires, I have the three wires but of different colors: purple, white and orange.
Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks ciao Giglio

 

[HandyAndy]

HI Andy, thank you for your very useful information. I have the same problem, they cut my schuko cable, but in addition to the single-phase power supply wires, I have the three wires but of different colors: purple, white and orange.
Do you have any suggestions?
Thanks ciao Giglio

Giglio, what is your problem exactly? If you have the original moulded plug,, that should have the 2 thermistors inside. If you are carerful you can cut away the original plug and save these components. Are you trying to fit a different plug? Please post some pictures. Your plug will be different to the UK plug!

 

[mikebeetle]

Orange is common. Measure resistance between the wires on the plug, 20K between White and purple which means the other wire (orange in this case is common). Pretty sure you could just replace the thermistors with 10k resistors if your not concerned about the actual temp measurement/protection.

 

[Mario123]

I have a bit more complicated issue on my Delphi charger.
Not only plug with thermistors is broken but the inside little PCB connected to the thermistors cable is cooked.
I am quite sure that some AC went to the PCB and now I am looking for put a new one (repair is not possible IMHO).
DO you know if this parts are available, somehow?
thanks a LOT

View attachment 140971 View attachment 140972 View attachment 140973

How did you open it up? Mine seems to be okay, until I plug it into the car and comes up with the red light "fault". This happened after has been dropped from around 1m high on concrete.... Would like to have a look inside it maybe it's just a quick fix. Thanks.

 

[Shaker i3]

An owner of one of these decided to swap the 13A plug for a Commando one, only to discover after cutting it off that there are 6 wires going into the plug! I acquired this, and have repaired it with a chunky new 13A Masterplug and have fitted the 2 thermistors inside where they belong. I'm posting what I've learned so as to help anyone else with a damaged/destroyed plug, or wanting to do the same kind of plug-swap, so they can buy they correct valued thermistors if required.

The original owner carefully disected away the plug, and rescued both thermistors & the fragments of wire, enough for me to be certain of the connections. Thank you!

In addition to the usual 3 wires, the cable from the EVSE has 3 more coloured Black, Purple/Grey, and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Grey.
I believe the thermistors to be Vishay NTCLE100E3103 which are 10k Ohms at 25C. Colour code Brown-Black-Orange.

Type-2 plug EVSE (from a Bmw, probably i3) with new plug fitted:
View attachment 125434

Underside of EVSE:
View attachment 125436

Wire fragments:
View attachment 125435

13A Masterplug
View attachment 125437

A very small amount of trimming was needed inside the Masterplug to not trap the thermistor wires. In the Rhs view one thermistor has been tucked beside the Neutral wire, and the other thermistor sits above the fuse.

I checked the resistance of the 2 thermistors carefully, letting them cool slowly from 100C on my K-thermocouple-controlled Heated Base Plate. I believe the thermocuple temperature will have been at most 2 degrees C cooler than the thermocouple reported, and that reports in 1C intervals. So there's a fair bit of variation in the resistances I measured while the temp controller (an industrial Toho unit) was reporting a single temperature.
Here's a table of the max and min resistances (Ohms) I measured at a series of temps, and also the nominal resistance expected from a Vishay NTCLE100E3103 thermistor datasheet:

Temp Min Max NTCLE100E3103
100 707 759 677
95 800 847 786
90 908 957 915
85 1046 1099 1070
80 1224 1294 1256
70 1680 1768 1753
60 2380

An owner of one of these decided to swap the 13A plug for a Commando one, only to discover after cutting it off that there are 6 wires going into the plug! I acquired this, and have repaired it with a chunky new 13A Masterplug and have fitted the 2 thermistors inside where they belong. I'm posting what I've learned so as to help anyone else with a damaged/destroyed plug, or wanting to do the same kind of plug-swap, so they can buy they correct valued thermistors if required.

The original owner carefully disected away the plug, and rescued both thermistors & the fragments of wire, enough for me to be certain of the connections. Thank you!

In addition to the usual 3 wires, the cable from the EVSE has 3 more coloured Black, Purple/Grey, and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Black.
One thermistor is connected between Black and Purple/Grey.
I believe the thermistors to be Vishay NTCLE100E3103 which are 10k Ohms at 25C. Colour code Brown-Black-Orange.

Type-2 plug EVSE (from a Bmw, probably i3) with new plug fitted:
View attachment 125434

Underside of EVSE:
View attachment 125436

Wire fragments:
View attachment 125435

13A Masterplug
View attachment 125437

A very small amount of trimming was needed inside the Masterplug to not trap the thermistor wires. In the Rhs view one thermistor has been tucked beside the Neutral wire, and the other thermistor sits above the fuse.

I checked the resistance of the 2 thermistors carefully, letting them cool slowly from 100C on my K-thermocouple-controlled Heated Base Plate. I believe the thermocuple temperature will have been at most 2 degrees C cooler than the thermocouple reported, and that reports in 1C intervals. So there's a fair bit of variation in the resistances I measured while the temp controller (an industrial Toho unit) was reporting a single temperature.
Here's a table of the max and min resistances (Ohms) I measured at a series of temps, and also the nominal resistance expected from a Vishay NTCLE100E3103 thermistor datasheet:

Temp Min Max NTCLE100E3103
100 707 759 677
95 800 847 786
90 908 957 915
85 1046 1099 1070
80 1224 1294 1256
70 1680 1768 1753
60 2380 2502 2490
50 3437 3556 3605
40 5044 5353 5330
30 7470 7800 8059
25 9187 9675 10000
24 9642 10110 (no data)

Given the variability in thermistors (the 2 I tested were usually about 30 Ohms apart, and must have been near-as-dammit identical temps) I consider this a pretty close match, certainly accurate enough for this Vishay thermistor to be used as an excellent replacement for a damaged original. My thanks to Farnell (& Cpc, part of the same group) for making the datasheets & parts available.

Thanks for the info. Super helpful.

I have a similar unit but Delphi. Do you have a lead on the screw heads to open it? Mine look like Torx, but they have lobes and a small bump in the center so nothing I have will fit.

 

[HandyAndy]

Count the lobes. I expect 6, but could be 5. If 6, it's probably a Torx Security Screwdriver Set job, see eBay. If 5, no idea. Probably want the T25 or T27 size.

 

[cthombor]

Sorry, no. Would not surprise me at all that a voltage swap attempt fails, as 250V (nominal) EVSEs are known to cut-out & shut down if the mains supply drops too low, or even overshoots the max a bit !!! This has causes a few dropped charges, e.g. where there's a load of houses with solar panels in the street & no-one's drawing much power, so the voltage creeps up over 250...

The mode-2 EVSEs (aka IC-CPDs) I have used in NZ have worked fine on the (nominal) 115V AC provided by my 2:1 stepdown transformer; and their backplate tells me that they're also rated for operation on the 100V AC of Japan. They'll have a switching power supply on their front end, so will be highly tolerant to undervoltage -- as long as they can deliver the minimum wattage required by the EV -- and that'd be the 600W (nominal) of a 6A 100V trickle-charge in Japan.

Overvoltage is another matter entirely, of course! The 15A charger supplied with imported-used Nissan Leafs, until a few years ago, was rated only for use up to 200V AC. Some folks modded it (200V AC Japanese EVSE on 230V AC NZ Power system: Any probs? - My Nissan Leaf Forum) but I really didn't like the idea of a 3 kW appliance running too 'hot' when the mains supply voltage was at its legal maximum of 230V + 6%. They're now banned for importation here (Electricity Regulations (Nissan 200 V IC-CPD) Notice 2020 - 2020-au5440 - New Zealand Gazette) and used ones are now cheap-as-chips in Japan -- as they're essentially e-waste that's gotta be disposed of when the used Leaf is readied for export to NZ.

BTW I'm currently using a 3:2 autotransformer to charge my Leaf at a nominal rate of 6A * 230V * (2/3) = 920W. I had been using my trusty-old 2:1 3 kVA isolation transformer to trickle-charge my Leaf -- trickle-charging at 6A * 230V * (1/2) = 740W, rather than slow-charging at 6A * 230V = 1480W, being important to make efficient use of the power supplied by my (small) rooftop PV array. But... when I got a new-fangled IC-CPD with its built-in RCD, it'd detect a ground-fault because its supply-neutral was disconnected from its ground supply. After puzzling over the situation for a while, I settled on rewiring my 2:1 isolation transformer so that it is a 3:2 autotransformer. See https://electronics.stackexchange.c...guring-a-21-stepdown-transformer-for-efficient-solar-charging-of-an-ev-f/608691. I'm still testing -- but at least at this point in late summer -- charging at 920W through the autotransformer is working well for me:

Of course, YMMV. This seems a very US-centric blogsite... if you're working with 115V AC then a bog-standard 6A IC-CPD is already delivering the smallest "trickle" that an EV will accept on a mode-2 charge. (I'm hoping that someday soon, a low-cost low-power solar-smart mode-4 charger will be designed and marketed... because I think that's likely to be a much more efficient way to trickle-charge an EV from a PV array...)

 

[Nuno]

Hi Andy,
First of all thank you very much for the valuable information you shared here.
I have the same charger you and "strange harm" have on the picture, with code product 35025802. Mine stopped charging after 4 years. When I connect it to the wall plug all LEDs are off and in the past the power one was always green. Looking for the error code on the back, with all 4 LEDs off it shows a symbol like a wall plug.
What do I have to do on this case, to try to open the plug and check if the fuse is damaged and replace if needed or do I need to buy these thermistors with a new plug and replace the old plug completely as you show here.
My plug is EU, only with two pins and ground.

Thanks for your support and best regards Nuno.

 

[HandyAndy]

Hi Andy,
First of all thank you very much for the valuable information you shared here.
I have the same charger you and "strange harm" have on the picture, with code product 35025802. Mine stopped charging after 4 years. When I connect it to the wall plug all LEDs are off and in the past the power one was always green. Looking for the error code on the back, with all 4 LEDs off it shows a symbol like a wall plug.
What do I have to do on this case, to try to open the plug and check if the fuse is damaged and replace if needed or do I need to buy these thermistors with a new plug and replace the old plug completely as you show here.
My plug is EU, only with two pins and ground.

Thanks for your support and best regards Nuno.

Nuno, without looking at your EVSE myself, it's hard to say what's wrong. I suggest open it up, and you'll see the thin wire(s) going from the PCB to the plug, and you need to unplug these from the PCB, and use a Multimeter to measure resistance between these wired and the ground wire coming back from the plug. It's possible the thin wires have fractured = fatigued = broken, in which case you need to work out if the break is at the plug end, or the EVSE end.

Let's assume the this this wire is broken.

You might be able to work out which end it's broken at, by connecting the meter to check continuity, then flex/bend the wire at the plug end, and at the EVSE end. Try compressing the outer cable to make the wires "shorter", this just might push the break together enough for the meter to suddenly show a connection.

If you can't work out which end is broken, I suggest shorten the wire at the EVSE end as that's easy to do, Cut off the thick cable maybe 2 cm beyong the outlet from the EVSE, remove the insulation etc & check for conductivity again. If you're lucky, you've found the bad piece of wire! Reassemble the cable, solder it all etc.

If this fails to find the break, do the same thing at the plug, cut that off, strip the insulation from the wires, you now have a long piece of cable, bare wires at each end. You can grab a wire on the copper end and pull gently with pliers, if there's a break nearby, the strands of copper will pull out!

Replacing the plug is a slow job. If the plug is moulded onto the cable, you need very sharp knife, I use a Swann Morton scalpel, and very carefull shave-away the rubber, revealing the wires and bits inside the plug, but trying not to damage the thermistors. These should be ok, but again check them for resistance. Then reassemble thermistor(s) back into the new plug somehow - I'm not familiar with internals of your plug!

Post some pics here of the error being shown, inside of the EVSE etc, it all helps.

And when you do reassemble, I suggest you use a powerful soldering iron to resolder ALL the high-current connections, and the soldered tracks on the PCB, as solder joints fatigue with time and these ones need to be re-made periodically.

Good luck!

 

[Nuno]

Thank you very much for the detailed answer Andy.
I've measured the resistance and in all 3 wires value is close to 284kohm with plug connected to 220v and 0.0 ohm when disconnected. I made a picture from the measurement as an example because I'm not so experienced with it and you can see if it was done correctly.

The error being shown is that all 4 LEDs are off when I connect the plug to 220v. When we look to the back side that as the description of the different possibilities, it's the first one that shows all 4 LEDs off and a symbol of a plug without tension.

When it was working well the power led was always on.

Attached also some pictures from the equipment.

Regards.

 

[Spiny]

As this is an EU plug I don't think it has the thermistors, they are not needed. And it looks like the mains cable is just 3 wires not 5 when the thermistors are used.
Check continuity of the mains cable ie both ends of each colour if the mains cable is ok then its the electronics, probably the low voltage power supply.

Edit - just a thought, you jave checked the socket actually has power, like plugging a lamp into it?

 

[Nuno]

As this is an EU plug I don't think it has the thermistors, they are not needed. And it looks like the mains cable is just 3 wires not 5 when the thermistors are used.
Check continuity of the mains cable ie both ends of each colour if the mains cable is ok then its the electronics, probably the low voltage power supply.

Edit - just a thought, you jave checked the socket actually has power, like plugging a lamp into it?

Hi, Main cable as 5 wires also. Continuity on mains cable is ok from 220V plug to circuit and from circuit to car plug.
Yes socket is ok. I've tried with different equipment and it's working. Also tried to connected to different sockets and it doesn't work on any of them.

 

[Spiny]

5 wires is a thermistor type - there should be resistance between the thin wires, this will decrease if the plug is heated (or increase if cooled).
As Andy has noted changing the plug is a pain you need to dig the thermistors out of the moulded plastic.
However I would expect with failed thermistors the power light to work. All lights out is more likely to be a failure of electronics and the low voltage powersupply in particular as that will drive the leds.

 

[Nuno]

I saw a picture with a fuse (13A) inside the plug from Andy, could it be damaged and this way blocking everything?

 

[Nuno]

5 wires is a thermistor type - there should be resistance between the thin wires, this will decrease if the plug is heated (or increase if cooled).
As Andy has noted changing the plug is a pain you need to dig the thermistors out of the moulded plastic.
However I would expect with failed thermistors the power light to work. All lights out is more likely to be a failure of electronics and the low voltage powersupply in particular as that will drive the leds.

I've sent a picture on how the measurement was done to be checked if it was done properly, please check.