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Northern Power Grid - No More 100A fuses and Re-actively downgrading to 80A

8.9K views 50 replies 17 participants last post by  GavJ  
#1 ·
Over the years I've seen people mention that Northern Power Grid will not upgrade a supply to a 100A fuse anymore. I've also seen people say their fuse was reduced from 100A to 80A when a smart meter or other work on the cut out is performed.

I found this earlier, that confirms both of the above are true, thought this might be useful information to stick on the forum. :oops:

Northern Powergrid, the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) for the North East, Yorkshire and northern Lincolnshire, will no longer be providing connections which incorporate a 100A fuse within domestic and small nondomestic cutouts for whole current metered connections. We will standardise the fuse installed in whole current metered connections to 80A.

Why have we made this change?
Historically, domestic and small non-domestic premises had a connection installed which was fused at either 60A or 80A. In recent years, we’ve seen requests to increase that fuse size to 100A to accommodate the installation of Low Carbon Technologies (LCTs), typically EV chargers and heat pumps.

In the past, installing a 100A fuse in premises where customers would seldom consume the maximum power level near the maximum, and when equipment was installed in areas where the temperature would remain low, was deemed acceptable.

However, as our customers are adopting newer, greener technologies and their peak power consumption changes from the winter to any season, we have made the decision to reduce the fuse size installed within whole current metered equipment.
We will therefore standardise the fuse installed in whole current metered connections to 80A.

Why are we reducing the maximum fuse size?
The primary function of the DNO fuse is to disconnect the premises in the event of a fault occurring between the DNO and customers equipment. The DNO fuse should not be used as a method for limiting the electricity capacity within a customer’s installation.
Installing a 100 Amp fuse will allow a current flow higher than the rating of the DNO equipment, the suppliers equipment, the meter and the consumer tails. This allows sustained current flows slightly higher than the equipment rating.

How will this affect customers?
Customers should not see a difference to the short term capacity made available through an 80A fuse. The 80A fuse can permit the flow of up to 100A of electricity for up to four hours.

Due to the cyclic nature of most loads (i.e. the load rises to 100A only for short periods of time before falling away again) during a 24-hour period, an 80A fuse can supply a 100A load.

What if a customer requests a capacity greater than 23kVA (100A)?

For normal domestic or cyclic loads, we will install an 80A fuse which can provide a 100A supply in these circumstances. Northern Powergrid will undertake this upgrade to the connection at no cost to the customer.

What if a customer/installer requests an upgrade to a 100A fuse for normal domestic or cyclic load?
We will not provide an upgrade to a 100A fuse, as there is already sufficient diversity within the customers premises.

What if a customer requests a sustained (non-cyclic) capacity greater than 18kVA or 80A?
Where a customer requires a connection with a constant current flow greater than 18kVA, the connection will be provided in one of three ways:
  • three phase with an 80A fuse;
  • split phase with an 80A fuse; or
  • three phase with a cut out rated at a minimum of 130% of the sustained power requirement and a fuse rated at the sustained power requirement.
Is there any risk to those customers where we have installed a 100A fuse?
The risk is not significant given the cyclic nature of the load and there is a little risk of this impacting on the grading between DNO and customers equipment. A fault within a domestic premises will primarily be disconnected by lower rated customer-owned circuit breakers, which protect the individual circuits.

Will we be replacing the 100A fuses we have installed in customer installations?
Where 100A fuses are found after July 2023, these fuses will be replaced with 80A fuses. There will not be a programme of replacement.

When will this change come into force?
The change will be implemented with immediate effect. Where a connection offer has been issued prior to this change, an 80A fuse will be used unless a constant, non-cyclic load is to be supplied. In this latter case one of the three options above should be employed. We will be contacting our customers in due course to inform them of this.
 
#4 ·
I like the way that they have spun this to pretend that it's being done for our safety.

Like this quote. "The primary function of the DNO fuse is to disconnect the premises in the event of a fault occurring between the DNO and customers equipment. The DNO fuse should not be used as a method for limiting the electricity capacity within a customer’s installation."

Unknown to me, apparently this fuse is really to protect me from some error that they might create, rather than the other way around. Ah, so that's OK then. Nothing whatsoever to do with limiting total demand on any one sub-station - rather than upgrading that equipment to cope with what will pretty soon be a much larger demand.

All good. Nothing to see here. Move along >>>>>>>>
 
#6 ·
I like the way that they have spun this to pretend that it's being done for our safety.

Like this quote. "The primary function of the DNO fuse is to disconnect the premises in the event of a fault occurring between the DNO and customers equipment. The DNO fuse should not be used as a method for limiting the electricity capacity within a customer’s installation."

Unknown to me, apparently this fuse is really to protect me from some error that they might create, rather than the other way around. Ah, so that's OK then. Nothing whatsoever to do with limiting total demand on any one sub-station - rather than upgrading that equipment to cope with what will pretty soon be a much larger demand.

All good. Nothing to see here. Move along >>>>>>>>
I don't see what's wrong with their statement.

The main cable that powers every home on your street is fused somewhere with, say, a 1000A fuse for 100 properties. This will not provide any protection in the event of an overload of your supply.

The 100A fuse in your property prevents overloading the thinner cable from the main supply to the house, which would be an expensive repair and depending on how much of that cable runs inside your property, could contribute to a house fire.
 
#13 ·
National Grid Distribution (formally Western Power) also have the same policy with the same date. So I suspect it will affect all DNOs and they haven't communicated it out.

https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads-view-reciteme/633928

I would think for 99% of people's situations it's not really an issue. But if you are maxing out for hours on a regular basis then it maybe time to think of your long-term use and either work to lower your usage (heat pump rather than storage heaters etc) or move to 3 phase while there is good availability and DNOs are willing to be reasonable with soaking up some of the costs. Chances are if you are currently stuck using storage heaters on a large scale then you are not on the gas network and your neighbours are also likely in the same position so may be worthwhile speaking to them about an upgrade at the same time to keep the costs with the DNO lower.
 
#18 ·
HP 4kw
Immersion 3kw
Electric shower 12kw
car charger 7kw
Oven 6kw
House loads up to 3kw (with diversity)

= 35kw = 145A !! Dont worry i dont use all at the same time.

Are people using storage heaters plugging them into house ring main- should they not have direct connection to the CU ?
 
#22 ·
HP 4kw
Immersion 3kw
Electric shower 12kw
car charger 7kw
Oven 6kw
House loads up to 3kw (with diversity)

= 35kw = 145A !! Dont worry i dont use all at the same time.

Are people using storage heaters plugging them into house ring main- should they not have direct connection to the CU ?
You could put one / maybe 2 on a spur off a ring main, but normally if it's doing whole house it would be on separate circuits. Aren't they like 10/13A each normally?
 
#37 ·
Many countries already charge higher standing charges for higher levels of power supplied. This chart shows the French EDF scale.

Yearly Meter standing chargePrice per kWh
3 kVA115.56 €0.2516 €
6 kVA151.2 €0.2516 €
9 kVA189.48 €0.2516 €
12 kVA228.48 €0.2516 €
15 kVA264.84 €0.2516 €
18 kVA301.08 €0.2516 €
24 kVA381.12 €0.2516 €
30 kVA449.28 €0.2516 €
36 kVA537.84 €0.2516 €
 
#45 ·
I had a quote to get 3P installed during a refurb. UKPN wanted 2.5k to run the cable from the street to an external meter box. About 15m run. For that price, I would have to do all the ground works on my land and provide a new meter cabinet (existing install is indoors). I would also have to organise the meter install and connection to the CU. Electrician didn’t think it was worth it as highly unlikely we would have ovens, induction hob, HP and car charger all running at full load at the same time. Peak load so far has been 14kW so he wasn’t wrong..
 
#50 ·
Since we got solar and batteries installed, the amount we actually pull from the grid has drastically reduced and not only that, the load we put on the overall house is less (car gets charged predominately from excess solar and the inverter taps out at 5kW so barely gets more than 4.5kW) as we try to balance supply with demand as much as possible. So while initially I thought NP downgrading people from 100A to 80A was a bit harsh, thinking about it, it’s not a big deal at all and even less so for those who do have the capacity to self generate. Winter is the only real issue here but again, the colder temperatures tend to benefit the substations with the extra cooling. However, rather than blanket reductions, would It make more sense to be doing it in areas where there is a concern? Otherwise it does seem to me they’re putting off investment and pushing more of the cost on the individual who already pays a hefty fee to utilise the grid these days.
 
#51 ·
I think a blanket rule is fine, but if you need to and can prove a need to upgrade then that should be an option the DNO is willing to entertain and work with you on. TBF when I have had to deal with the DNOs in the past they are willing to listen and work with you.

The majority of houses are likely to max out at 80A in the future and that will be at night with two EV chargers and the heat pump filling a tank of hot water. So that's going to be 60A for the EV chargers and 16A for the heat pump then a small amount of background usage. With most new car chargers having dynamic load then even if you decide to charge your cars in the day, run the oven to make Sunday lunch and use an electric shower you are likely only going to drop the car charge rate for the 20min or so the electric shower would be on.

So personally I wouldn't really worry about it. For the handful of people that will exceed the current limits on a regular basis then you may as well stump up the money for three phase. It's not like they are likely to not be well off if they are already spending a fortune on electricity.