Well, I appear to have just broken down. STOP Electric Failure DANGER displays on the dash. Anyone had this before?
King Ming
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I believe this an appropriate tale for this thread, and one with (fingers x'd) a happy ending! I have had my Zoe back for 4 weeks now after 3 months in the workshop, have covered 600 miles since and, I'm pleased to say, it seems to be going better than ever.
My Zoe first failed on 1st April. I finally received it back near the end of June. On 2 previous times I received it back I had to return it the same day. (Flatbed). Last time the Service Manager told me it had a string of faults and could be a while. (Electric Motor Failure). I took a hire car this time through Renault Customer Services.
When I picked it up I was told they had replaced 12v battery, Inverter, and Motor. I'm sure other minor parts were changed also, and software updated.
I think I have been very lucky to find a Service Dept who regarded it as a challenge to solve a thorny problem. Its worth noting that as all these vehicles are under warranty, the repairs have to be diagnosed and confirmed by Renault Technical and some dept in Renault is picking up the tab. I know the Motor change was approved during a personal visit by a member of Renault Technical. I'm sure that the quality of staff and knowledge is improving all the time as more training and experience is accruing.
I believe that dealers do not hold spare parts on site and have to acquire these from Renault, who are obviously paying for them at present. Therefore no repair will be quick. (No more 'cleaned the plugs and adjusted the points and it ok now mate'!). In many cases the diagnosis is carried out by Renault Technical and the workshop is then supplied with the part and told how to fit it.
When I bought the Zoe 18 months ago I had a lot of difficulties, and the dealer went through the process of getting a price from Renault etc to buy it back. (A process similar to Kotek's?). I don't know if it was genuine or just a 'blind' but nothing came of it. Remember that Sales sell the car, and the finance, and take your money and pick up the commission. Full Stop, next customer. After that it's down to the Workshop and Renault Customer Services. No dealer wants a 2nd hand Zoe on his books, so they need to get Renault to take it.
I hope this will give encouragement to those on here whose difficulties I have been reading about. You have my sympathies and be assured you are not alone in your struggle against the mighty Renault, and sometimes the result is a good one. These faults occur out of the blue, and its a case of 'there but for the grace of God go I'. As I am constantly told, we are pioneers.
Good luck to us all!
My Zoe first failed on 1st April. I finally received it back near the end of June. On 2 previous times I received it back I had to return it the same day. (Flatbed). Last time the Service Manager told me it had a string of faults and could be a while. (Electric Motor Failure). I took a hire car this time through Renault Customer Services.
When I picked it up I was told they had replaced 12v battery, Inverter, and Motor. I'm sure other minor parts were changed also, and software updated.
I think I have been very lucky to find a Service Dept who regarded it as a challenge to solve a thorny problem. Its worth noting that as all these vehicles are under warranty, the repairs have to be diagnosed and confirmed by Renault Technical and some dept in Renault is picking up the tab. I know the Motor change was approved during a personal visit by a member of Renault Technical. I'm sure that the quality of staff and knowledge is improving all the time as more training and experience is accruing.
I believe that dealers do not hold spare parts on site and have to acquire these from Renault, who are obviously paying for them at present. Therefore no repair will be quick. (No more 'cleaned the plugs and adjusted the points and it ok now mate'!). In many cases the diagnosis is carried out by Renault Technical and the workshop is then supplied with the part and told how to fit it.
When I bought the Zoe 18 months ago I had a lot of difficulties, and the dealer went through the process of getting a price from Renault etc to buy it back. (A process similar to Kotek's?). I don't know if it was genuine or just a 'blind' but nothing came of it. Remember that Sales sell the car, and the finance, and take your money and pick up the commission. Full Stop, next customer. After that it's down to the Workshop and Renault Customer Services. No dealer wants a 2nd hand Zoe on his books, so they need to get Renault to take it.
I hope this will give encouragement to those on here whose difficulties I have been reading about. You have my sympathies and be assured you are not alone in your struggle against the mighty Renault, and sometimes the result is a good one. These faults occur out of the blue, and its a case of 'there but for the grace of God go I'. As I am constantly told, we are pioneers.
Good luck to us all!
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RCI says this is impossible. It's possible to perform a "back out" of the agreement, I think the dealer has to initiate this, and this apparently cancels the agreement as if it never existed. It's not, however, possible to swap the vehicle on an existing agreement, either for a new one or for a used one. These are RCI's words.
Anyway, the dealership received my letter of rejection, spare key and V5C a couple of days ago. 3 working days DHL delivery from Kuala Lumpur, not bad! I'm in Singapore now. No phone calls or emails from the dealership yet. I expect they're in contact with Renault / their legal team to find out what their legal position is. If they don't make contact until I get back to the UK on 16th August it wouldn't be the worst thing. Trying to relax here!
It's such a pity. I pay the money (two days ago this month's instalment came out of my bank account by the way), I expect a car fit for purpose in return. Instead they've supplied me a car which the law says must have been faulty since day one. A customer less reasonable than I might seek for reimbursement of the total of all monies paid for this faulty car.
As an aside, I don't know why EVs are not at all common in Singapore. The country suits EVs almost perfectly.
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1,662 Posts
That surprised me that they say it is not possible as we have done similar things with Santander before (although that time it was because we taxed the wrong car 
).
).
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I thought I would check this with my RCI rep, as it didn't sound right, and his answer was
"Yes my belief is that this is possible. You would need to speak to Customer Services and provide them with a "nil balance invoice" then we send a modifying agreement to the customer for them to sign and send back. They can be contacted on 0333 009 0230"
Obviously I didn't mention any names or dealerships and posed it as a hypothetical question.
"Yes my belief is that this is possible. You would need to speak to Customer Services and provide them with a "nil balance invoice" then we send a modifying agreement to the customer for them to sign and send back. They can be contacted on 0333 009 0230"
Obviously I didn't mention any names or dealerships and posed it as a hypothetical question.
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Back from holidays, received a recorded delivery letter from Bristol Street Bradford. The postman forged my signature and popped it through my letterbox. Brilliant.
In the letter, the New Car Sales Manager, who I had sent my rejection letter to, together with the spare key and V5C, says:
"I refer to your letter dated 12 July 2016. I am sorry that your vehicle has had an issue requiring repair, and that it has taken 2 visits to our dealership for us to identify and diagnose the fault, which was only occurring very intermittently.
I confirm that we have liaised with the Renault Technical team and propose to replace the PEC (Charger/converter) Unit to resolve the issue. This work would be carried out under warranty with no cost to you .
Your letter states that you wish to reject the vehicle. Unfortunately, you are not entitled to do so. The fault first arose almost 6 months after you purchased the vehicle. Your initial remedy for any fault at this stage is to a repair, which we are proposing to provide, and not to a rejection. It is not unusual for vehicles to develop a fault and this does not provide an automatic right to reject.
Please confirm that we can go ahead and carry out the repair. We will then contact you to collect your vehicle so that you can satisfy yourself that the fault has been resolved."
Needless to say, I'm thoroughly disgusted by that. Firstly, the sarcastic undertone is stomach-churning. "Only occurring very intermittently" - the car broke down and was rendered dangerous and not drivable. This happened twice since I owned the car, the first instance was just before it was six months old and the second instance was four weeks after that.
The law says that if a new car presents a fault within six months of delivery I must allow the dealership one opportunity to repair it. I did that, they failed. The car was with them for 12 days. All they did was clear the error logs, test drive it, then tell me the issue was probably cause by an overhead electricity pylon. An invisible one, since there are none in sight in the place where the car broke down. They returned to me the un-repaired car, which, as stated, re-presented the same fault four weeks later.
It's quite incomprehensible that Bristol Street seems to think The Consumer Rights Act 2015 doesn't apply to them.
The sad thing is, if they'd have diagnosed the fault earlier and offered to replace the PEC (Power Electronic Controller) on the car's first presentation of the fault I would have had to have accepted the repair, which I would have done, without quibble. Rather, I believe Bristol Street didn't take the problem seriously, they failed to diagnose the fault, were more interested in trying to sell me tracking for my six months old tyres (they pushed this at least three times on me) than actually trying to fix the car.
I haven't replied to the letter yet. I called Renault Customer Relations yesterday to speak with my case handler. He was on another call and his colleague said he would ask that he calls me back once he's free. I didn't receive a call back. I'll call him again shortly. The nightmare continues..
In the letter, the New Car Sales Manager, who I had sent my rejection letter to, together with the spare key and V5C, says:
"I refer to your letter dated 12 July 2016. I am sorry that your vehicle has had an issue requiring repair, and that it has taken 2 visits to our dealership for us to identify and diagnose the fault, which was only occurring very intermittently.
I confirm that we have liaised with the Renault Technical team and propose to replace the PEC (Charger/converter) Unit to resolve the issue. This work would be carried out under warranty with no cost to you .
Your letter states that you wish to reject the vehicle. Unfortunately, you are not entitled to do so. The fault first arose almost 6 months after you purchased the vehicle. Your initial remedy for any fault at this stage is to a repair, which we are proposing to provide, and not to a rejection. It is not unusual for vehicles to develop a fault and this does not provide an automatic right to reject.
Please confirm that we can go ahead and carry out the repair. We will then contact you to collect your vehicle so that you can satisfy yourself that the fault has been resolved."
Needless to say, I'm thoroughly disgusted by that. Firstly, the sarcastic undertone is stomach-churning. "Only occurring very intermittently" - the car broke down and was rendered dangerous and not drivable. This happened twice since I owned the car, the first instance was just before it was six months old and the second instance was four weeks after that.
The law says that if a new car presents a fault within six months of delivery I must allow the dealership one opportunity to repair it. I did that, they failed. The car was with them for 12 days. All they did was clear the error logs, test drive it, then tell me the issue was probably cause by an overhead electricity pylon. An invisible one, since there are none in sight in the place where the car broke down. They returned to me the un-repaired car, which, as stated, re-presented the same fault four weeks later.
It's quite incomprehensible that Bristol Street seems to think The Consumer Rights Act 2015 doesn't apply to them.
The sad thing is, if they'd have diagnosed the fault earlier and offered to replace the PEC (Power Electronic Controller) on the car's first presentation of the fault I would have had to have accepted the repair, which I would have done, without quibble. Rather, I believe Bristol Street didn't take the problem seriously, they failed to diagnose the fault, were more interested in trying to sell me tracking for my six months old tyres (they pushed this at least three times on me) than actually trying to fix the car.
I haven't replied to the letter yet. I called Renault Customer Relations yesterday to speak with my case handler. He was on another call and his colleague said he would ask that he calls me back once he's free. I didn't receive a call back. I'll call him again shortly. The nightmare continues..
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We have have owned 3 Zoe's to-date (Zoe No 1 was 9th in the UK) and all 3 have had this fault at on time or another and yes this fault is well know in Zoe's just read the forums.
I have experienced this BCI first in May 2013 and on our Zoe-i that needed a new BCU just last month so Renault seem not to be on the ball with this one
Best case scenario is lock the car walk away and BCI will clear after about half an hour.
Worst case scenario when BCI will not clear Zoe was flat-bedded to Renault ZE Wolverhampton where it had a new BCU (battery charge controller unit) unit fitted and Zoe No 3 was away for a few weeks.
This is our own experience with nothing made up!
Do not charge the 12v battery or mess with any other part of the car as with our Zoe No1 wife and I where blamed for not plugging the charger plug in correctly (I kid you not) then it was the home chargers fault etc etc
Zoe No 3 does seem fine now after its new BCU (at just 520miles)
Zoe is a fantastic EV when running but can be a little flakey at times but stay with your Zoe as it will be repaired eventually but I repeat do not try to fix it yourself and why should you?
I have experienced this BCI first in May 2013 and on our Zoe-i that needed a new BCU just last month so Renault seem not to be on the ball with this one
Best case scenario is lock the car walk away and BCI will clear after about half an hour.
Worst case scenario when BCI will not clear Zoe was flat-bedded to Renault ZE Wolverhampton where it had a new BCU (battery charge controller unit) unit fitted and Zoe No 3 was away for a few weeks.
This is our own experience with nothing made up!
Do not charge the 12v battery or mess with any other part of the car as with our Zoe No1 wife and I where blamed for not plugging the charger plug in correctly (I kid you not) then it was the home chargers fault etc etc
Zoe No 3 does seem fine now after its new BCU (at just 520miles)
Zoe is a fantastic EV when running but can be a little flakey at times but stay with your Zoe as it will be repaired eventually but I repeat do not try to fix it yourself and why should you?
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I have read your post three times. Let me start that I do understand the gist if the Consumer Rights Act, but know nothing of how that works in real life. It seems to apply to a car as well as to a 15 quid water cooker, which can complicate things when it comes to execution. With that said, it seems to me that you are right in the "de jura" sense.
I think people should not be shoved around AND if you're on the short end you should act and not whine too much. Vote with your feet. Hats off to you.
However..........
1. It seems you are furious at the dealer (don't blame you, that entire clear faults, pylon story is ridiculous!!), but (had they fixed it) quite happy with the car. I think it is something to consider: what do you really WANT? Reject the car because you're fed up with the dealer? To make a point? Or because you genuinely lost faith in your ZOE (after PEC replacement *) )? Or would you rather have a nice well behaving ZOE?
2. You seem to be quite disappointed in the dealers reply. With the utmost respect, I think that is slightly naïve. They are just fighting back and like it or not, that is to be expected.
3. I would be extremely careful to fight your fight in this public arena. Sure it can create leverage, but it can also create a "drop dead you" attitude. Rest assured that Renault UK and maybe your dealership follows this thread with more than casual interest and as said, the result can work for you or against you. If they will conclude at some moment in time feel there is literally nothing they can do to make you happy, rest assured they will do nothing.
I think people should not be shoved around AND if you're on the short end you should act and not whine too much. Vote with your feet. Hats off to you.
However..........
1. It seems you are furious at the dealer (don't blame you, that entire clear faults, pylon story is ridiculous!!), but (had they fixed it) quite happy with the car. I think it is something to consider: what do you really WANT? Reject the car because you're fed up with the dealer? To make a point? Or because you genuinely lost faith in your ZOE (after PEC replacement *) )? Or would you rather have a nice well behaving ZOE?
2. You seem to be quite disappointed in the dealers reply. With the utmost respect, I think that is slightly naïve. They are just fighting back and like it or not, that is to be expected.
3. I would be extremely careful to fight your fight in this public arena. Sure it can create leverage, but it can also create a "drop dead you" attitude. Rest assured that Renault UK and maybe your dealership follows this thread with more than casual interest and as said, the result can work for you or against you. If they will conclude at some moment in time feel there is literally nothing they can do to make you happy, rest assured they will do nothing.
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4,983 Posts
Pompous nitpicking: it seems like dealers on your end of the pond make up the names of what they replace. BCU? PEC? Don't exist in the ZOE. If you want to get into a discussion with your chief mechanic:
BCB: Connection box and charger (top metal box on the Q210)
PEB: Inverter and DC/DC converter (metal box between the BCB and the motor on the Q210)
LBC: battery management computer (inside the battery pack)
BCB: Connection box and charger (top metal box on the Q210)
PEB: Inverter and DC/DC converter (metal box between the BCB and the motor on the Q210)
LBC: battery management computer (inside the battery pack)
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1,750 Posts
Perhaps you are right, it is to be expected that the dealership fights back, but in refusing to respect my rights under the law they are, very quickly, making very sure that I will not give them any future business. Often the way a firm handles a complaint has a significant influence on the customer's future buying decisions.
Initially I wanted for the faulty Zoe to be replaced, and the dealership were willing to do this. Then when they asked Renault to support the funding of the replacement and Renault said no, the dealership's willingness to replace the car vanished. Right now, all I want is for my legal rights to be respected. The car presented a dangerous and immobilising fault within six months of purchase, I gave the dealership the opportunity to repair it and, while they kept the car in their possession for 12 days, they failed to repair it, they gave the car back to me and four weeks later the fault returned.
I don't wish to whine, I wish to vote with my feet. I've respected the dealership's legal right to one attempt at repair. All I want now is for the dealership to respect my legal right to reject the car.
Initially I wanted for the faulty Zoe to be replaced, and the dealership were willing to do this. Then when they asked Renault to support the funding of the replacement and Renault said no, the dealership's willingness to replace the car vanished. Right now, all I want is for my legal rights to be respected. The car presented a dangerous and immobilising fault within six months of purchase, I gave the dealership the opportunity to repair it and, while they kept the car in their possession for 12 days, they failed to repair it, they gave the car back to me and four weeks later the fault returned.
I don't wish to whine, I wish to vote with my feet. I've respected the dealership's legal right to one attempt at repair. All I want now is for the dealership to respect my legal right to reject the car.
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1,750 Posts
Spoken to my complaint handler at Renault Customer Relations. Renault are siding the dealership. They say I should allow the repair to proceed.
Does legislation mean nothing in this country anymore?
I also just came off the phone with RCI Finance. As the car is on PCP, and they are still taking my money every month, they have some responsibility. Amazingly, though I've been on and off the phone with them since day one about this issue, they haven't actually logged it as a complaint. Apparently that only happens when I utter the words "I wish to make an official complaint", otherwise all they do is log the call but do nothing. It used to be that any expression of customer dissatisfaction was a complaint and should be logged accordingly. Anyway, complaint with RCI now raised..
Does legislation mean nothing in this country anymore?
I also just came off the phone with RCI Finance. As the car is on PCP, and they are still taking my money every month, they have some responsibility. Amazingly, though I've been on and off the phone with them since day one about this issue, they haven't actually logged it as a complaint. Apparently that only happens when I utter the words "I wish to make an official complaint", otherwise all they do is log the call but do nothing. It used to be that any expression of customer dissatisfaction was a complaint and should be logged accordingly. Anyway, complaint with RCI now raised..
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10,288 Posts
I suggest you go to your local CAB office. However you best check all your dates and receipts for "work" done.
My concern would be if the first instance of taking car to dealer if they monitored car and saw no fault exhibited would this count towards the first repair if no repair took place. It's probably a grey minefield.
My concern would be if the first instance of taking car to dealer if they monitored car and saw no fault exhibited would this count towards the first repair if no repair took place. It's probably a grey minefield.
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1,750 Posts
PEC: "Power Electronic Controller"
- Renault UK
"Three in one’: the junction box, the power electronics unit and the Chameleon charger are now in a single unit called the Power Electronic Controller. The unit is 25 per cent smaller as a result."
- Renault UK
"Three in one’: the junction box, the power electronics unit and the Chameleon charger are now in a single unit called the Power Electronic Controller. The unit is 25 per cent smaller as a result."
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523 Posts
RCI told me offically that because they are not car specalists they that have got to take the adivce of the dealership and renault uk specialists - so much for independent anaysis of fact. It's now with the ombudsman.
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523 Posts
Nightmare! I'm 5 months in now. Still not ready to roll over though.
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523 Posts
Still paying battery rental and car repayments. Although I do have I courtesy car which the garage are making noise about getting back. I've asked for some assurances in writing before I take the car back. They replaced the BCB unit and have said it's fixed. All due respect - they have told me this before. The intermittent fault which has been present in the car since purchase still remained. All I'm asking is that they admit to me in writing that if I see the fault again within the warrenty period of the part that the most recent attempt to fix the problem has failed and that the underlying intermittent fault the car has shown since purchase still remains. They are so far refusing to do this. In the next breath though they tell me they are confident they have fixed the problem - go figure.
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