[Seamus]

That was a good report. I don't think that if I was in the market for a new Leaf that I would find the charging times acceptable. Half an hour on the 24 Leaf is just about ok. Charging times certainly need to improve if they are to gain popularity.

 

[Seamus]

Nissan's website says you can reach 80% in "40 to 60 minutes" depending on charger type and battery temperature

40 minutes is a big lump of time to take out of a journey and 60 is a no go for me. 30 mins is just about acceptable. Unless they can improve this it is showing the advantage of a REX at least.

 

[Seamus]

But surely in your journey in the 24 you'd be stopping several times more which overall would take far longer than the 40-60 minute stop in the Leaf 40, that's if you even need to stop at all.? Are you being negative just for the sake of it?
As to your other point, stopping to recharge a PHEV Outlander at every opportunity didn't seem to stop many of their owners, so regular 30 minute stops didn't appear to be a disadvantage to them.

Nothing wrong with what you said except you have changed the context.

I did not mention the 24 at all. I was just saying that I am not prepared to wait 40/60 minutes for a charge on a journey. I would prefer one that could consistently charge within 30 mins. This is the advantage of some sort of ICE complimentary addition so that you can at least complete your journey in good time.

 

[Seamus]

I took it you were relating to your own 24 Leaf, sorry if I misunderstood. However obviously you don't have to wait for 40 minutes if you don't want or need to. If all you need is a 20 minute splash and dash why wait for 40 minutes unless its to get the money's worth from a timed session. A short charge would help prevent the battery temperature ramping up excessively too.
I suppose it is at least mathematically understandable that a 45/50 kW charger is not able to deliver 30/35 kWh in 30 minutes. At a steady 40kW from a charger without even ramping down, a 40kWh car will mathematically require an hour to recharge from empty. 40 minutes would be impossible.
Seems some are expecting the new Leaf and the current 43kW chargers to defy science. How long would it take a 80kWh Tesla to fully recharge from near empty on an EcoT rapid? Be a lot longer than 40 minutes!

I take your points. For me the sticking point is max 30 min stop, even that my Wife objects to, and I expect there are many similar Wives.

They need to sort out consistent charging and controlling battery temperature. The charge you start with is what you should finish with. Doesn't matter about the dynamics of battery management, that is for the manufacturer to resolve.
I suppose the Porsche 800v charging will eventually trickle down to the more mundane cars which should resolve many of the problems, by which time the batteries will have change to some other construction.

 

[Seamus]

I won't be buying a Seamus branded EV anytime soon then if the dynamics of battery management doesn't matter. Light the blue touch paper and retreat!
Maybe something affordable will appear some day, maybe graphene based where heat build up can be controlled, have you heard of suitable battery for your really rapid charging EV?

Again you are being silly and not reading what I write.

As a user I do not care about BMS. That is the manufacturers problem and for them to get it right. I do not expect the charge to slow down especially on successive charges. At the moment these are Beta versions, or just short range cars not expected to travel out of range. To get the public to more easily accept them this charging time has to be resolved.

 

[Seamus]

But you have to, or at least be aware of it. There's many things we don't care about but have to consider them!

Perhaps I am not making myself clear. I am looking from the buyer perspective. All of us here know the importance of BMS but that is not an issue a new buyer need to be concerned with, same as they do not care how the petrol gets into an ICE

 

[Seamus]

The mind boggles!

You really don't get it do you?

 

[Seamus]

So are you saying electric cars other than the Leaf don't ramp the power down the further they are into the charge and the battery doesn't get warmer? I'll take some convincing!
It's a fact of science!
Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

notwithstanding, this may please some:
Energy storage leap could slash electric car charging times

I don't disagree with what you are saying but you are going off on your own tangent.

I will give you another example. My Wife is non technical. She goes to a garage fills, up and drives till it needs more. What happens to the fuel as far as she is concerned is just magic. The same should be for a BEV. There should be no need to know what is happening or expect to have to wait a lengthy period to refill.

Don't get me wrong. I love driving my Leaf but it has to be planned, and if I am going beyond its limit, or having come home on low battery and need to go out again, I will probably take my ICE. At the moment I don't think they are fully fit for purpose, at least not in the lower end of the market.

 

[Seamus]

With the extra range of the Leaf 40 you might not need to.. It's what people wanted, a car with a longer range!

I feel that I have rained on your parade and that was not my intention. It is after all exciting to get a new car and I hope you will enjoy it.

It is the extended charging time and long waits that is my gripe. Fortunately for the time being I do not need to replace my car, and hope I am not tempting fate by saying that.

 

[Seamus]

Before anyone considers cutting holes into battery pack from cabin - please consider that the battery case and vehicle floor are an important firewall that shouldn't be breeched.

The last thing you want is anything (even condensation) getting into the battery pack. In the event of a battery fault/fire/crash you don't want oxygen getting to the battery or smoke to the cabin.

Leave the can opener in the kitchen drawer.

I think it is fairly well sealed. See here for a tear down.

 

[Seamus]

I understand why the charge tapers off but the public at large do not and will not find it acceptable. Having to wait more than 30 mins to fill is a long time.

I did a 300 mile trip (150m each way) over the w/e. Took my Brother's ICE and it took 2 1/2 hrs to get there. No way is that feasible in a 40 or any other pure EV. At least an hour would have had to been added for charging. Battery charging times have to be improved and no doubt they will in time.

 

[Seamus]

150 miles sounds like the ideal trip for the new Leaf, no need to stop on route.

I haven't seen any reports of a 150 mile trip at this time of year in rain, heating and 70/80mph where possible. Then there is recharging since there was no destination charging.

 

[Seamus]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Roberts not just for fully charged, and I watch a lot of his stuff but I just feel he dropped the ball slightly on this episode, and perhaps should have waited until he had a bit more information to hand before posting something.

I remember Robert saying in the past that he does not like conflicts and this is pushing him in that direction. I think he is likely to accept whatever Nissan might say. I hope he does stand up to them.

 

[Seamus]

This is not a car for anyone who needs to arrive at a certain time. On paper it looks fine, a 4/5 seater big enough to take people in relative comfort with sufficient storage. In fact it can't do this. The charging times are not acceptable. With faster charging stations due to come on line the car will not be able to make full use of them.

A journey in an ICE I made I had to get up at 5am to get there in time. If I had used the new 40 I would have had to get up a 4am and still could not have guaranteed the arrival time.

A lot more needs to be done to reduce the charging times before dependence on an ICE can be dispensed with.

 

[Seamus]

Is any EV ?

Not really. It is as @Surrey Plum says above, and why I keep an ICE but would rather drive an EV.

 

[Seamus]

One thing is still clear to me. This will not affect many thousands of owners. A few may have to spend longer at charge stations if they are on a very long road trip. For sure it's disappointing for them. But not the end of the world.

It is quite probable that many people will drive in your configuration, but they may also decide to take a holiday. They then have the worry of timing their arrival at the ferry, airport etc. This is adding a complexity that should not be needed. The pressure needs to be kept up on Nissan to come up with a solution. Waiting 40/60 minutes for a charge is not acceptable. Charging times should be reducing if EV's are ever going to become mainstream.

 

[Seamus]

Given the constraints of 50kW chargers and requiring a full 38 kWh charge you'll be permanently disappointed then. Even if 50kW could be maintained throughout from zero to 100% (which it cannot of course without setting the battery on fire) the charge would take 46 minutes, so that's already outside your acceptance level. Guess you'll need to lower your expectations for a while yet won't you?

Quite so. At the moment EV's are not fit for purpose except for local journeys. At the moment they don't stand a chance of winning over the ICE drivers. Currently an ICE will do more for less capitol expenditure.

 

[Seamus]

Seamus said: ↑
Quite so. At the moment EV's are not fit for purpose except for local journeys.[/QUOTE

local? 75 mile return range Spring Summer and Autumn is not local. So going N/E/S/W From home 75 miles by road would get me to either Nottingham, Newmarket, Andover, Gloucester and home without charging say driving a constant 60mph.

I don’t class any of those as local! Do you class somewhere 75 miles away local. Jesus wept!

Not sure who you are replying to. Not all my words.

 

[Seamus]

Under 100 IMO. I drove at 70 indicated on the motorway in about 5 degree temperatures and the battery was dropping faster than 1% for each mile driven. I dropped to 65mph on the cruise control and it levelled out.

This does seem to be ridiculous until you realise that your 40 mpg car will not do 40 mpg at 70 mph. I suppose it comes down to firstly bad BMS, and battery technology not yet able to sustain what we expect.

 

[Seamus]

Is that using petrol or diesel? Leafs normally work best with electricity!

I assume intelligent people here, so if I say mpg I am obviously referring to a petrol/diesel car, or do I really have to spell it out?