Leaf 40 would get the vote from me.

 

there's a UltraCharge charger on our street that offers 3 different type of charging. Is it good enough?

That’s going to be a BP Pulse charger then. If you take a little look around the forums you’re going to quickly learn why they have a negative reputation here. BP’s chargers are not something you want to be relying upon. Nor do you want to be relying on rapid charging full time - There would be no opportunity for cell balancing, and especially with the LEAF that has no thermal management for the battery, it’s not going to be good for battery health in the long term.
—-
Rather than the LEAF maybe consider the Hyundai Ioniq? You definitely need a LEAF sized car if you want to fit adults and baby stuff in the back. So that rules out the Zoe. The Ioniq is the same size as the LEAF but offers a little more range, CCS charging (the new standard for rapid charging - The LEAF Uses the outdated CHAdeMO standard), much faster rapid charge speeds, and they tend to suffer much less in the way of battery degradation. Thanks to their unbeatable efficiency their 28kWh batteries can still outperform a 40kWh LEAF.

If it had to be just between LEAF and Zoe though, it would definitely be the LEAF.

 

You definitely need a LEAF sized car if you want to fit adults and baby stuff in the back. So that rules out the Zoe.

Such nonsense.

We did fine with the Zoe and two small kids. Even got a double buggy in the boot.

 

Between Leaf and Zoe i would say Leaf but as mentioned above unless you have already ruled them out, you may find a 28kWh Ioniq in your budget which may be more desirable.
If not a 40 kWh Leaf would certainly be in budget and would be suitable, i have had 3 Leafs since 2015 and still have one and neither have ever had any issues whatsoever.
By modern standards they are a bit outdated but remain a solid reliable option.

 

I read that whatever car we buy we need leafspy!

Oh, and just to respond to this. Leafspy is only handy for the LEAF. It's especially important when shopping for one of those due to the degradation issues I mentioned earlier, so it lets you check the battery is healthy before you buy. It's not such a worry for other models, though if you did want to do this with the Zoe then it's the CanZE app, and for the Ioniq it would be the canIoniq app. You'll need a suitable OBD Dongle to connect to your phone to use it. That's a Bluetooth model if you have an Android phone, or a WiFi model if you have an iPhone.

I believe there is a thread somewhere here on SpeakEV that gives links to the recommended devices that people have successfully used with these apps, as there are a few incompatible and/or fake dongles on the internet.

 

Oh, and just to respond to this. Leafspy is only handy for the LEAF. It's especially important when shopping for one of those due to the degradation issues I mentioned earlier, so it lets you check the battery is healthy before you buy. It's not such a worry for other models, though if you did want to do this with the Zoe then it's the CanZE app, and for the Ioniq it would be the canIoniq app. You'll need a suitable OBD Dongle to connect to your phone to use it. That's a Bluetooth model if you have an Android phone, or a WiFi model if you have an iPhone.

I believe there is a thread somewhere here on SpeakEV that gives links to the recommended devices that people have successfully used with these apps, as there are a few incompatible and/or fake dongles on the internet.

Ah, thank you so much, will do more research!

And definitely will be looking to Ioniq now, just need to figure out which model to be after.

 

Absolutely, the Ioniq if its in budget is 100% where you want to be looking. Leafs are great cars, no mistakes, but CHAdeMO plug (if you're of the right age think betamax vs VHS with CHAdeMO being Betamax!) is eventually going to be detrimental to you. The Ioniq has an excellent reputation because if its ridiculous efficiency and, so far, solid reliability. Leafs appear slightly more susceptable to battery degradation - interesting as I believe both the Leaf and the Ioniq have air-cooled batteries.

The Zoe is lovely but I think, looking at the age you're after, it probably won't have a CCS charging port. This will be detrimental for longer trips. If it's one of the new shape Zoes (R110 or R135 I think) then that might be a different matter.

 

Looking at the age you're after, it probably won't have a CCS charging port. This will be detrimental for longer trips. If it's one of the new shape Zoes (R110 or R135 I think) then that might be a different matter.

Even then it's not so simple.
The R110 was also available as a ZE40 too. No ZE40 Ever had CCS.

CCS Is available on the ZE50 R110 and R135, but only as an option. If you use a license plate checker website you can check the ZE50 has the CCS port by confirming it has the words "RAPID CHARGE" at the end of it's name on the checker. But you should still always make 100% sure by verifying in person before going ahead with the purchase.

 

Zoe is a piece of merde. Someone told the French engineers that an 'etron' was the competition they had to emulate. (French language joke...)

Some here will roll their eyes and say how totally wonderful they are, but the more discerning here (don't count me, I am as discerning as a junkie on cold turkey) also agree. I can rack up the posts here if you like to show you other people's opinion.

Your answer is for sure the Ioniq if you can find one and you all fit. I am sure of it, despite never having had one.

I would say;-
1. Ioniq
2. Soul >MY18(note ... it might be 30kWh but the battery might well still have the same capacity now as a degraded Leaf of the same age PLUS it's still got 3 years warranty!!! .. you should anticipate public charging events are required in any of these cars anyway)
3. Leaf, if you must, I can't say I find the seat comfortable and don't forget to cost in some extended warranty cover.

.... Zoe ... pfft .. not even on my list.

Please don't say you have not been warned .... I have warned people here in the past and they went ahead, some of them coming back later saying what a lump of dung it actually is. But feel free with your own counsel.

 

Leaf 40 has the space you need, Zoe not so much. Both may be fine for local journeys, but for short breaks further afield dragging along buggy, nappies, bottle steriliser etc you want the extra boot space of the leaf. The comments above about chademo are relevant though so maybe a second hand MG ZS EV might work (it is CCS) although as I've never owned one I can't entirely vouxh for exactly how much boot space it has.

 

Ioniq

 

Have you looked at the MG5? Not sure if they are under 20k but with the face-lift due later in the year there maybe a few about.

 

We have a baby, so the car needs to be spacious enough for 3 adults, baby seat and a lot of baby stuff.

the budget is up to 20K

Can it go to £21k 😉

The MG5 standard range seems to tick the boxes.

Wipes the floor with the 40kWh leaf, and agree with the above the Zoe is crap.

 

But if not the MG5 then the Ioniq. The 38kWh (~155 miles range) was Oct 2019 onwards so ~£22k+. If it's the 28kWh then about 40miles less range.

If it's between Leaf/Zoe then save your money.

 

But if not the MG5 then the Ioniq starts at £12.5k for a well used one but remember that's the smaller 28kWh battery (115 miles avg range), your original budget of £15k would buy an ok one. The 38kWh (~155 miles range) was Oct 2019 onwards so ~£20k+

If it's between Leaf/Zoe then save your money.

View attachment 160948

View attachment 160949

(Hybrid) Diesels?

 

Hi all,

I'm a complete EV newbie and am looking for an advice too get my first EV?

We're looking to buy a used car, the budget is up to 20K. Initially it was 15, but from what I've seen online I don't think it's enough. We have a baby, so the car needs to be spacious enough for 3 adults, baby seat and a lot of baby stuff.

We live in London and both are cycling to work, so the car will be used for the weekend trips somewhere like Brighton, occasional airport trips, shopping etc. And potentially further trips in couple of years when the baby is older, so we would like to have a decent range (150+ miles?). We live in the block of flats, no charging from home possible, but there's a UltraCharge charger on our street that offers 3 different type of charging. Is it good enough? We can also talk to the council to see if they can install something on the parking area around the house?

After reading this forum and some other websites we narrowed it to 2 models: Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf, both second gen. Zoe tends to be cheaper, but customer satisfaction is lower and the whole thing with leasing the battery is a bit confusing. Leaf (40kwh) seems to be a better choice, although a bit more expensive.
Any thoughts on this, we're probably missing few points? Or maybe there's a better alternative to these two? Or zipcar forever?

I read that whatever car we buy we need leafspy!

Thank you!

In your situation I wouldn’t own a car. I’d definitely be doing ‘zipcar forever’, enterprise car club, taxis, that kind of thing. 20k in the bank/for other things.

 

I agree with this.

Spending £20k on weekend car is waste of money for you and waste of an EV that can better serve commuting everyday.

 

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Can also get MG5 61kWh estate from just over £26k, and the ZS 51kWh from just over £27k if you are, or live with a public sector employee.

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With likely strong EV residuals for the foreseeable I'm not convinced buying second hand with a correspondingly shorter warranty makes as much sense as it used to.

 

With likely strong EV residuals for the foreseeable I'm not convinced buying second hand with a correspondingly shorter warranty makes as much sense as it used to.

It’s an odd market.

As long as you’re prepared to wait, going new is a good option. I can’t see residual values falling for a while.

 

Aye, and being prepared to wait means well into 2023 for most brands just now.

 

Tesla are still quoting August for a Model Y. Seems ideal if I can pick up a Berlin built car later this year.

 

Ioniq 28kWh probably makes more sense if you can't charge at home thanks to its very fast charging rate (for the age of the car) and the fact it is so efficient.

 

I had a Zoe for 6 years, the 22kWh version with 43kW AC charging. At the time I sold it, my Son's were 11 and 13, it was just getting a little small for us then. The biggest issue for us was that there isn't a great deal of space under the front seats to put your feet when you're in the back. The heating and AC worked ok for me, living in London myself, but I could see how it could become an issue further north as the AC and heater can't be used at the same time so on cold wet days condensation could be a problem. The AC rapid charging worked well and would charge at full power beyond 80% charge, it's now an old charging standard and the number of chargers that support it has been falling. Having said that it's one of the few cars that can charge at 22kW. Many street chargers in London are Source London 22kW units and as they currently charge by the minute the ZOE's capable of taking the full charge rate so minimises the time that you're using them. As others have said try and find a lower power charger near you for the majority of your home charging, it's kinder to the battery. Many of the ZOEs only had 22kW rapid charging. Boot wise there was a bit more space than a Fiesta. It's quite a short car which makes finding parking easier. I were you I'd take a good look at all of the cars and see what you like the best. The Soul's boot is a little smaller than the Zoe's. I've not owned a Leaf, Soul or Ionic so can't really comment about them.

 

Hey,

I'd probably go ioniq as well.

However, RSymons did a set of videos very recently you should watch!

Ioniq Vs leaf (gen 1) Vs Zoe

They test (jokingly) pretty much every aspect of what you'd want

Their budget was £15k so should help you massively

 

Hey,

I'd probably go ioniq as well.

However, RSymons did a set of videos very recently you should watch!

Ioniq Vs leaf (gen 1) Vs Zoe

They test (jokingly) pretty much every aspect of what you'd want

Their budget was £15k so should help you massively

Oh wow, thank you so much! Yeah, 15K would definitely be good.

 

Another positive from a Zoe owner.

Bought a 41kWh battery owned (so no lease payments on the battery) used R90 model from a main dealer. Was 2-yrs old with just 5,500 miles on the clock. Cost me £14,500 after haggling and using used PCP to get a further £1,000 off (then cleared finance next day). Appreciate those sort of prices are difficult today, but a model similar to mine could be had for ~£15k if you are patient and quick! Also bear in mind the lease batteries can all be bought out, so maybe finding a cheaper lease model with the view of spending ~£4k to buyout the battery may work.

Had it for over 3yrs now and done over 12k miles myself and never had a problem. Been cheap to service, no problems at any MOT and extended the warranty after it was 4-yrs old for a modest £359/year for peace of mind.

Get 150 miles range pretty much most of the year, with 130ish around Dec/Jan, and as much as 170 in July/Aug.

I find the boot decent size, but rarely have more than just me and my partner in, so can't comment on the back. Did give my brother and his wee girl a lift once and the ISOFIX chair went in easy enough.

For the price and battery size, I struggle to find anything as competitive personally. Meant to sell it after about 2/3yrs for a Tesla, and whilst I probably will soon, it's hard to justify such a large increase in cost for something when the Zoe is perfectly suited....

 

Thank you! I feel like I've done a full circle here My main thing is that for the weekend car (also first car for driving in years) 20K seems like a lot, and this is when Renault really looks appealing. Since we're not too tall and 3rd adult is with us just some of the time, I feel like space shouldn't be much of a problem for us.
If you decide to sell yours, let me know I hope it's not against the rules here!

 

It's probably worth popping down to somewhere like car giant and going to sit in one. Take your buggy, car seat and anything else you need. Just to make sure.

You can then also see if anything else works for you.

I just had a look, they don't have any Zoe's but they do have leafs (gen 1&2)

 

Thank you. Our plan was to choose on paper based on budget and specs and then actually try one. Although it looks like we'll wait with buying or at least look at the hybrids, which I was trying to avoid.

 

I would second the comment above by nad_84.
No matter how much you look at specs, video reviews, get advice on here etc. until you physically inspect cars on your want list, its all pretty much a paper exercise.
if you can get some test drives, so much the better, but loading teh car up with family is a great way to see what does and doesnt work for you.

However I would also agree with others that have said hold onto your money as you dont really need a car if you are not using it for daily commutes.
You are better of just hiring an EV when you actually need one.
You might be better of trialling a few cars on subscription via Onto or Elmo for a single month.

Keeping the money for later may well be the smart move knowing that costs of absolutely everything will soar this year and probably into next.
Russia have seen to that bigtime.

 

If you can not charge at home please do NOT get a PHEV. The hassle of public charging just isn’t worth it for maybe 30 mile range, especially as your use case is medium to long journeys not local commuting. You also won't get back the higher upfront cost in fuel savings as public charging is expensive. Don't get me wrong, I think PHEVs are a good solution in appropriate use cases. I had two Ampera and for most of the year did my 40+ mile commute on cheap, off-peak electric.

The suggestion of not buying a car but using a car club is worth considering, especially as you only need at weekends or holidays. Cost can be quite attractive especially if only used for shorter journeys, such as Brighton. I looked at this when we lived near Newbury but the nearest club car was too far to cycle and cost of taxi there and back made it uneconomical (no buses!)

If you prefer to buy, a BEV filled up on public charging isn't going to save you much money, but would fit your use case. A used one would hopefully continue to enjoy low depreciation but that isn't guaranteed, especially as prices are very high at present, so tread carefully. IMO a new Leaf 40 Acenta (*) on PCP would be a more cautious approach as unlikely to cost much more over 3/4 years than spending 20K on a used one and the GFV gives you protection if used values drop. I personally prefer the Zoe, but (with baby in tow) recognise you will probable appreciate the extra space of the Leaf.

Good luck!

* The Acenta isn't a great spec but is quite a bit cheaper...

 

If you can not charge at home please do NOT get a PHEV. The hassle of public charging just isn’t worth it for maybe

Good luck!

* The Acenta isn't a great spec but is quite a bit cheaper...

Yes, you need home charging for PHEVs. Many are slow as well (3.6kw for my (ex) Golf so you won't be thanked for sitting on a public AC post for 90mins to get 6kWh/ 24miles.

 

To clarify, I really would not recommend a Leaf 30 to the OP. Ignoring the aesthetics (which is subjective but I hate!) the range will become an issue in a few years, especially as with poor battery management they suffer worse range loss than most EVs (not an opinion but backed by field data).

As above, used EVs are a minefield at present but a MG ZS at £20K is probably a fair price.

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Leaf 30 does not suffer worse degradation, this is myth, facilitated by not perfectly programmed BMS display.

My 80k miles Leaf 7 years old BMS degradation is 22% but real life degradation is only 19%.

Only 2.6% degradation.per year, last year more rapid charging than slow charging to 100%, car has hundreds rapid charges and always charged to full.

Car can charge to about 104%; BMS and Leafspy stop counting at 100%, but keeps charging.
Car drives about 6 miles before 100% becomes 99%.

With my eco driving style, I achieve 6 miles per kWh on B roads, 5 miles per kWh A roads.
Cold battery, rain, wind excluded.

One thing I don't like is UK built dark interior.
Ugly and some parts cheap looking.
Japanese interior looks much fresher and newer.

Leaf 24 and 30 looks ugly in dark colors but great in light colors.

 

Hi all,

I'm a complete EV newbie and am looking for an advice too get my first EV?

We're looking to buy a used car, the budget is up to 20K. Initially it was 15, but from what I've seen online I don't think it's enough. We have a baby, so the car needs to be spacious enough for 3 adults, baby seat and a lot of baby stuff.

We live in London and both are cycling to work, so the car will be used for the weekend trips somewhere like Brighton, occasional airport trips, shopping etc. And potentially further trips in couple of years when the baby is older, so we would like to have a decent range (150+ miles?). We live in the block of flats, no charging from home possible, but there's a UltraCharge charger on our street that offers 3 different type of charging. Is it good enough? We can also talk to the council to see if they can install something on the parking area around the house?

After reading this forum and some other websites we narrowed it to 2 models: Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf, both second gen. Zoe tends to be cheaper, but customer satisfaction is lower and the whole thing with leasing the battery is a bit confusing. Leaf (40kwh) seems to be a better choice, although a bit more expensive.
Any thoughts on this, we're probably missing few points? Or maybe there's a better alternative to these two? Or zipcar forever?

I read that whatever car we buy we need leafspy!

Thank you!

Have you given any thoughts to buying an MG zs ev,it has a quoted 163 mile range a good sized boot for carrying baby's buggy etc.It also has the Euro5 Ncap rating for safety and comes with a lot of safety features.It also has battery thermal cooling something the leaf doesn't have.I have the zs ev exclusive and have had it since new in 2020 and it's been a good reliable car , plenty of room in the rear .you could pick up a 2019 model for around 18/19.000 pounds.

 

Very interesting thread for me also , thanks all, we are still running our C zero, budget doesn't allow upgrade just yet, if i do get budget together was thinking Leaf2 or Zoe2 as potential replacements . Only recently been considering Zoe 41kwh as realised how good range appears ie comparable with Leaf 40kwh, i need to research a bit more re reliability of both , battery life/technology, likely long term ownership costs etc.I don't need the space or regular rapid charging, just nice to have 130+ mile range now and again., so Zoe a possible for us. I would consider a Cat S car if damage had been light enough (another potential thread subject there) hence the link below caught my eye, Cat S Zoe 41kwh, seems good value battery owned , welcome expert views on value etc. Cat S with ICE cars normally means 25-30% less value. I try to keep cars quite a few years and clock up miles , so lower residual value as a Cat S would probably be ok for me . maybe of interest to @fikka ....
Renault Zoe 41kWh Dynamique Nav BATTERY OWNED | eBay

 

...I don't need the space or regular rapid charging, just nice to have 130+ mile range now and again., so Zoe a possible for us...

Don't rule out the Ioniq 28 versus Leaf & Zoe 40 kWh. Users here say 160 miles summer & 120 miles winter is easy with sensible driving (lorry speeds + a coupld of mph, 60 ish rather than 70 ish).
I can well believe this. I can get 200 miles in summer & 180 in winter in my Ioniq 38 kWh, and that model's reckoned to be have 40 miles more range that the 28.
You also get nice fast CCS charging, up to 67 kW up to about 75% SOC before it drops.
This car's just about the most efficient affordable EV there is. It's an under-appreciated gem.