[I3s driver]

I wanted to try the app at my local Shell garage but found it unusable do to poor network coverage, I only had 3G. Nonetheless I tried Shell Recharged app, and this worked just fine. I don't know if the Bonnet app is resource hungry or I was just unlucky.

My referral code is RRPX9X if anyone wants to use it.

I wanted to try the app at my local Shell garage but found it unusable do to poor network coverage, I only had 3G. Nonetheless I tried Shell Recharged app, and this worked just fine. I don't know if the Bonnet app is resource hungry or I was just unlucky.

My referral code is RRPX9X if anyone wants to use it.

It happened to me once in a remote location.

I just closed the app, turned my data on and off again and it resolved the issue. I wouldn't say the app is particularly heavy on resources.

The team is great and they are always improving the app so I'd definitely say stick with it.

 

[I3s driver]

Another little talked about benefit of using bonnet is that the app only reserves £5 as a holding fee when using pay as you go.

Compare that to BP and other operators who reserve £25 - £30 every time.

Those reserve charges can really add up if you charge frequently and they can take a while to drop off your account.

Even if you don't subscribe to a package it makes sense to use bonnet. Cheaper energy unit price, cheaper holding fees, a simple easy to use app.

 

[Astolat]

Isn’t this all completely unsustainable, though, long term? Bonnet doesn’t really add anything - it doesn’t install or fund chargers itself, and it is an entirely app-based system just when we had finally got the rule that all new rapid chargers had to be contactless-enabled. So in the long term, if it achieves its aim of incorporating all, or even most, networks it will be entirely parasitic - in order to make any money it will have to take it in addition to the cost paid to the network for the charge.

It’s currently charging 25p pkwh for the highest users on a refill package. That appears to be less than the price the energy suppliers are charging business customers, though I suppose the charging networks can negotiate better deals. But I can’t see how the charging networks could even accept 25p long term and still fund their own expansion. It will be very interesting to see how much cash Bonnet has burned through in its first year. It’s only hope of eventual success, in my opinion,seems to be in becoming a monopoly provider, at which point it can either raise the prices it charges, or reduce the payment it makes to networks starving them of funds, or both.

Only opinion, obviously, and founded on nothing but trying to look at this from first principles, but I don’t see the benefit. If it stuck to aggregating small networks that weren’t contactless it might make sense, but only if it was charging (and paying) a realistic rate.

 

[I3s driver]

Isn’t this all completely unsustainable, though, long term? Bonnet doesn’t really add anything - it doesn’t install or fund chargers itself, and it is an entirely app-based system just when we had finally got the rule that all new rapid chargers had to be contactless-enabled. So in the long term, if it achieves its aim of incorporating all, or even most, networks it will be entirely parasitic - in order to make any money it will have to take it in addition to the cost paid to the network for the charge.

It’s currently charging 25p pkwh for the highest users on a refill package. That appears to be less than the price the energy suppliers are charging business customers, though I suppose the charging networks can negotiate better deals. But I can’t see how the charging networks could even accept 25p long term and still fund their own expansion. It will be very interesting to see how much cash Bonnet has burned through in its first year. It’s only hope of eventual success, in my opinion,seems to be in becoming a monopoly provider, at which point it can either raise the prices it charges, or reduce the payment it makes to networks starving them of funds, or both.

Only opinion, obviously, and founded on nothing but trying to look at this from first principles, but I don’t see the benefit. If it stuck to aggregating small networks that weren’t contactless it might make sense, but only if it was charging (and paying) a realistic rate.

A lot of very smart and very rich investors disagree with you.

But as you say its only your opinion and founded on nothing. All part of life's rich tapestry.

 

[Astolat]

None of which engages with the points I made.

 

[93410]

Isn’t this all completely unsustainable, though, long term? Bonnet doesn’t really add anything - it doesn’t install or fund chargers itself, and it is an entirely app-based system just when we had finally got the rule that all new rapid chargers had to be contactless-enabled. So in the long term, if it achieves its aim of incorporating all, or even most, networks it will be entirely parasitic - in order to make any money it will have to take it in addition to the cost paid to the network for the charge.

It’s currently charging 25p pkwh for the highest users on a refill package. That appears to be less than the price the energy suppliers are charging business customers, though I suppose the charging networks can negotiate better deals. But I can’t see how the charging networks could even accept 25p long term and still fund their own expansion. It will be very interesting to see how much cash Bonnet has burned through in its first year. It’s only hope of eventual success, in my opinion,seems to be in becoming a monopoly provider, at which point it can either raise the prices it charges, or reduce the payment it makes to networks starving them of funds, or both.

Only opinion, obviously, and founded on nothing but trying to look at this from first principles, but I don’t see the benefit. If it stuck to aggregating small networks that weren’t contactless it might make sense, but only if it was charging (and paying) a realistic rate.

A single app that helps me find chargers, start charging, pay, report issues, and keep a history of my charging sessions?

It will do just nicely thanks.

 

[Astolat]

A single app that helps me find chargers, start charging, pay, report issues, and keep a history of my charging sessions?

It will do just nicely thanks.

Again, my point is that it can only do that long term by taking money from the charge point operators. I can see the use, I suppose, if you need to make expense claims, but otherwise the standard way of starting charging sessions should be to tap a bank card or phone. I’ll be more inclined to take seriously comments from people who don’t have a referral code in their signature.

 

[Snaxmuppet]

In general, I like these consolidation apps. Carrying around loads of cards is not for me and using debit cards is a right pain at the moment with pre-authorisations and getting the credit if the charge fails... I won't use my debit/credit cards unless I have to.

I have chosen Bonnet because right now the freebies are handy and I am happy to stick with them with a low monthly refresh all the while they continue to offer discounted per kWh rates but when they up their rates (and I am sure they will) then I will reassess to see if any of the other consolidation apps suits me better.

If I can't use Bonnet then I will use the appropriate network app or as a last resort... a credit card.

 

[93410]

Again, my point is that it can only do that long term by taking money from the charge point operators. I can see the use, I suppose, if you need to make expense claims, but otherwise the standard way of starting charging sessions should be to tap a bank card or phone. I’ll be more inclined to take seriously comments from people who don’t have a referral code in their signature.

I don’t claim expenses, nor do I need to use a plethora of other apps to either find or pay for chargers (like many people do)

I don’t give a stuff how seriously you take my comment or not, I’m a happy customer who doesn‘t have to worry about the difference between how things SHOULD work and how they actually DO work.

 

[Snaxmuppet]

Again, my point is that it can only do that long term by taking money from the charge point operators. I can see the use, I suppose, if you need to make expense claims, but otherwise the standard way of starting charging sessions should be to tap a bank card or phone. I’ll be more inclined to take seriously comments from people who don’t have a referral code in their signature.

I totally disagree at the moment. Until they can get their systems sorted so that they don't need to put through a pre-payment I for one don't think that credit/debit card payment is worth the hassle. I tried out an MFG hub yesterday... 2 charge attempts, 2 failures, 2 pre-charges to my card. Now I have to wait until they get reversed before I get that money back into my account. That is no way to run a charge network IMO.

As for the Bonnet long-term sustainability... I think that they might have a viable business model long-term. The charge networks are clearly selling electricity to Bonnet at way under what they charge on their own network and given the current wholesale price quite possibly under what Bonnet charge. What is unsustainable are the offers and freebies at the current rate but that is a normal part of getting to market so I expect that to slow/stop once they have reached a critical mass.

 

[46689]

As for the Bonnet long-term sustainability... I think that they might have a viable business model long-term. The charge networks are clearly selling electricity to Bonnet at way under what they charge on their own network and given the current wholesale price quite possibly under what Bonnet charge. What is unsustainable are the offers and freebies at the current rate but that is a normal part of getting to market so I expect that to slow/stop once they have reached a critical mass.

I don't think Bonnet pay for all their offers so no cost to them but of course they benefit from people from downloading and continuing to use the app etc

 

[Snaxmuppet]

I don't think Bonnet pay for all their offers so no cost to them but of course they benefit from people from downloading and continuing to use the app etc

I am confused... sorry... who pays for them then? Have I missed something?

 

[Astolat]

Paul, thanks for actually engaging with what I said.

There are two possibilities, it seems to me. One is that the networks are actually getting close to their retail price from Bonnet and they are just burning their capital to corner the market as an aggregator. In that case the aim must be to force, through their market dominance, all providers to join them. At that point they’ll put their prices up or demand bigger discounts from the providers.

The other option is that they are already demanding discounts from the providers, though I suspect it is bigger discounts from the smaller providers. If they stuck to aggregating the smaller networks that would be a genuine help, but again if they use market dominance to effectively force all networks in, they’re again going to either increase their own prices or demand bigger discounts from the providers.

So the net result is either that we pay more, or we pay the same but the providers get less. The economics of being a provider are precarious enough as it is, the result of Bonnet taking a cut is less money for maintenance, new chargers, etc.

edit: oh, and any minute now i3sdriver will “like” this post, even though he completely disagrees with it.

 

[Snaxmuppet]

@Astolat I see what you mean.

At the end of the day, I suppose any time you introduce a middle-man into the equation there is less money to go around for everyone.

Aggregators will have to be profitable but the CPOs also need to be viable so it is difficult to see where the money is coming from at the moment. I suppose that ultimately, it comes from us... the drivers... but that only works if there is enough drivers willing to pay the high prices set by the CPOs.

Bonnet will have to up their prices at some point IMO. The current level is just so low when compared to the CPOs own pricing that it seems difficult to see how it is sustainable. So for me, the question is am I prepared to pay extra, over the CPO pricing, when using an aggregator? Already there is a precedent for this... ZapMap charges the same as the CPO + 50p per charge. With Kia Charge there is a 49p session fee if you don't subscribe. I will pay extra but not by much and if I choose to subscribe then I'd expect it to be less not more.

It is a new market. Who knows which way it will go

 

[motmot]

I suspect Bonnet have a load of start up capital and now need to show they have numbers and turnover to their backers - and so the charging networks let them in.

So I’d bet the networks are giving very little of any discount to Bonnet - so they’re burning though their start up to get customers and so on… many dot.com’s have operated in this way.. god knows how long it was before Spotify made any profit (if they ever did!)

 

[LPP]

Bonnet will be trying to build their subscriber base rather than the PAYG. It's common knowledge services like this make their profit from the majority who pay for more than they ever need and then make a small loss on those that rinse it.

A good example of this are mobile networks who give unlimited data, most will only use tiny amounts costing the company nothing but afew will use hundreds of gigabytes.

The CPOs need to decide if people will stick with only Bonnet networks if they're subscribing or can be tempted away.

I'd say Bonnet are looking very likely to succeed but require Instavolt, Gridserve and MFG for them to be truly ubiquitous amongst all circles.

£50pm seems like alot for us used to home charging but for those coming from ICE with no driveways or do alot of traveling then £50pm sounds far better than they'd have been doing on fuel. My wife's commute 40 miles per day (with extras) saw us using £50 per week.

 

[Cheshirecat]

Well i have a home charger, but unfortunately don't have a cheap off-peak tariff
So I currently pay 28p+vat (5%) , the Bonnet 29p ( inc vat) rate for rapid charging looks attractive

 

[I3s driver]

Well i have a home charger, but unfortunately don't have a cheap off-peak tariff
So I currently pay 28p+vat (5%) , the Bonnet 29p ( inc vat) rate for rapid charging looks attractive

25p per kwh if you purchase the £50 package

The bonnet team are a bunch of young disrupters in a field dominated by old farts who can't see the wood for the trees.

I wish them every success.

 

[6652]

2021 - “I’m fed up of all the apps and rfid cards I have to have to use the public charge networks, I want PAYG like petrol and diesel pumps.”

2022 - “What, I only have to pay from 25p per kWh if I charge via the bonnet app? Take my money!”

Nowt motivates EV’ers like cash it seems, and damn the long term.

 

[I3s driver]

.

2021 - “I’m fed up of all the apps and rfid cards I have to have to use the public charge networks, I want PAYG like petrol and diesel pumps.”

2022 - “What, I only have to pay from 25p per kWh if I charge via the bonnet app? Take my money!”

Nowt motivates EV’ers like cash it seems, and damn the long term.

I have to agree, the idea of taking a couple of pence per transaction away from large companies is truly awful.

My heart especially goes out to BP and shell during these austere times. In fact we should probably set up a gofundme to ensure the future of the public charging network.

It is also clear these big companies with record breaking profits had no idea what they were getting into when they teamed up with bonnet and need protecting.

In happier news I will say its reassuring to know that if ever I want to pay more for something or haggle for a bad deal I know where to go. I can also reassure people that this thread is definitely not a Monty Python sketch.