I had a Zappi 2 fitted and on first test, with a Teslar, it blew. ....

What do you mean bu blowing? Is an internal breaker tripping and has to be reset? Is it an RCD / earth breaker (with a test button?).

 

Sometimes the Zappi itself clicks, goes dead and needs resetting. Sometimes the wall Fuse box goes which is a new fuse box just for it. Two electricians, and their on phone tech people have seen it operate like this. Both units. The new Zappi 2 just out to comply with new laws. Blowing as it fuse gets triggered to go off. Or unit clicks and goes dead. Takes about 3 minutes after charge rises about 5.2kw.

 

Could be an earth leak issue but seems strange if it's another new zappi unit. What are the RCD rated to?

 

B32 so I assume that means 32amp. Your idea of an earth link should have passed over the top technical peoples desk at My Enrgi, surely, and as their fitter cam and fitted the second unit, surely he was qualified enough to have done an integrity test on dependent issues? Their experts, their fitters. I am just the [paying customer seeking answers and a working unit.

 

B32 so I assume that means 32amp. Your idea of an earth link should have....

I don't know the unit or car but can you set a lower limt of charge as a test? May be 3KW (13A)? If that holds in then it is not a time issue it is a current issue. There can be these sorts of problems if anywhere in your house wiring the Neutral gets shorted to the Earth wire. With low current everything works but as the current increases a current imballance can trip an ELCB. Admittedly I would expect your house fuse box would trip first but that may not have an earth breaker. Also, depending on where the supply for your charger is wired to it may not go through that fuse box.
Another question... as part of the install did they put in a long coper earth rod in the soil near by?
Can you take a pic of what you have to reset in the charger and wall fuse?

 

MyEnergi Zappi does not need a separate earth rod installation. It has additional circuitry built in and uses the house (or mains supply) earth.
The point about testing at a lower Amp rating is worth doing. That will reduce the overall house load against the mains supply-rated Amps (not your house fusebox rating the actual utility mains cable fuse).
There is also a setting on the Zappi to define the overall maximum household Amps, which should be less than the mains supply Amp fuse. So if you have say a 60A mains house fuse, you will need to reduce the Zappi setting from the default of 60A as it may take the overall usage over the maximum based on other usages in the house at the same time you are charging via the Zappi.
This is all stuff that should have been checked when installed.
But if everything is below the max rating at each point between Zappi, fuses, mains fuse, then @Grend.. is right in that this sounds like an earthing issue elsewhere in your property.
It is often the case that when you install something new with a high energy rating, such as a charger or even say a large oven, this can surface pre-existing issues within your household wiring. A good electrician will be able to test the various circuits within the house between the house fusebox and each circuit, which will easily pick up any earth-related issues. So at least you'd know on which circuit the issue is, for further investigation.

 

How did you pay? If you paid by credit card you have s75 protection as its not fit for purpose if they don't sort it.
When my Zappi was fitted the company insisted on a separate 32 amp circuit from my consumer unit.
My garage also has its own consumer unit.

Good luck.

 

How old is your property? How is the Zappi connected, does it go to the consumer unit or via a Henley block? My Zappi has been perfect, but my house is only 10 years old and the wiring is in good condition. Plus my installer reduced the Zappi max draw to avoid overloading the main fuse.

I think you could do with an EICR.

 

House 50 years old. Zappi in garage near supply, has its own fuse box. House has two fuse boxes, some 30 ft away, all with RCDs. No new earth rod was set in the ground. New Zappi fuse box is 32 amp. The second box fitted by My Energi fitter. They can look at things from HQ. I assume he did all the tests that he should have done, but getting anyone to talk is not easy. Appreciate all your input. I will pass it on.

 

House 50 years old. Zappi in garage near supply, has its own fuse box. House has two fuse boxes, some 30 ft away, all with RCDs.

If the distance between the two fuseboxes is 30 feet or so, hopefully the right grade of electrical cable was used to interconnect these. Assuming a single phase, you'd need to have at least 2.5 mm² although personally I'd ask for 4 or even 6 mm² to ensure power/amp/losses etc are well within tolerances.

 

50 year old wiring should be inspected - it's getting close to end of life. The copper is probably fine, but the insulation might be breaking down, causing short circuits. This shouldn't cause issues if it's on a different circuit, but the earth is common, and something is obviously wrong. My money is on either a poor installation, or faulty house wiring. Get an EICR - it should be done every decade or so, but I suspect it's never been inspected. My house is 10 years old now, and in the last few weeks I've done a lot of electrical work, so I really ought to book one too...

A Simple Guide to Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR)

Here is a simple guide to Electrical Installation Condition report (also known as EICR) - do I need one, who can I use to have one, and why do I need it.

www.sparksdirect.co.uk

 

50 year old wiring should be inspected - it's getting close to end of life. The copper is probably fine, but the insulation might be breaking down, causing short circuits. This shouldn't cause issues if it's on a different circuit, but the earth is common, and something is obviously wrong. My money is on either a poor installation, or faulty house wiring. Get an EICR - it should be done every decade or so, but I suspect it's never been inspected. My house is 10 years old now, and in the last few weeks I've done a lot of electrical work, so I really ought to book one too...

A Simple Guide to Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR)

Here is a simple guide to Electrical Installation Condition report (also known as EICR) - do I need one, who can I use to have one, and why do I need it.

www.sparksdirect.co.uk

So I checked last night. House built 1981, the extension end of the 1980's. I am going to get the house electrics checked on Saturday. Installation never checked that. If this unit triggers on a minor earth fault, I am shocked that a simple integrity check is not part of the installation process. You live and learn.

 

Daft question but are you sure it’s not the car as as 2 chargers and the same problems?

 

Tried two different cars, Niro and Teslar. Teslar site has some chat on it about a cable needing to be changed between the boards inside the Zappi, but I can't get anyone to own up on that ... so that is also two leads.

 

If only B32 at the house fusebox (or wherever the Zappi connects to the mains supply), that may not be sufficient for persistent 32A draw. So if you have a separate fusebox for the Zappi, that is okay to be 32A but then how that separate fusebox connects to the main house fusebox should be on a 40A breaker (if nothing else is also on the same circuit as the Zappi).
If the Zappi is set to full speed it will try and draw 32A, unless it has to back off if the overall household+charger usage is close to the setting in the Zappi for mains supply Amps.
As others have stated, the installer should have tested properly with their test equipment the overall household supply on the mains rail, plus also a test of the Zappi to their test charger kit (so like an EV being charged).

The Zappi is a known product and works well for lots of customers. You've already had a 2nd Zappi installed and the chance of 2 being faulty in a row is extremely low. Much more likely it is something elsewhere. The EIC inspection by a qualified and decent electrician is realistically the next step to take. It will tell you if there's a problem elsewhere.

But your installer must be certified to install this stuff, as it's notifiable work, and hence they are obligated to come back out and fault-find to identify why this is happening. That is all part of the relevant certification for charger installers.

To put this into perspective, I had to have my main house fusebox replaced with a new metal version, new RBCOs etc. Plus also the main house supply fuse was upgraded from 60A to 100A. Plus the Zappi was installed at the same time as my solar, so both solar+Zappi are on separate fusebox in the garage (Zappi is on 32A, solar on 16A), which connect back to the main house fusebox on a 50A breaker. This was all tested and an EIC inspection was carried out. And it works. My house was built in mid-80's so about 37 years ago. The electricals were fine, but only once the above work was done.

 

It sounds like the Zappi has been fitted by splitting the tails and adding an additional sub-main. That has the side effect of allowing the installer to not take responsibility for the existing wiring.

Myenergi should be able to identify what is causing the charge point to reset. I wonder whether you have a PME fault.

 

A pme fault would explain the zappi tripping but it wouldnt explain why the b32 circuit breaker is tripping

 

With a sub-main via split, effectively the Zappi is isolated from the house fusebox, and it's therefore only really relevant to the mains supply fuse plus of course the mains supply earth.

If this is indeed a sub-main split, one thing you could test would be to power off the house fusebox completely (no power to the house at all) and test the Zappi then. If that still trips, then it's definitely the Zappi installation and not something else within the pre-existing wiring before the Zappi installation.

 

If that still trips, then it's definitely the Zappi installation and not something else within the pre-existing wiring before the Zappi installation.

It could also be a supply issue. But that should have been picked up by the installer.

I'm still shocked that the installation has been left live when it's known not to work.

 

Can you post pics of the setup (all wiring from incommer to Zappi)? And when the Zappi trips what is on the screen and what noises does it make? The installer should have tested the EVSE with a proper tester which throws all sorts of errors at the Zappi and they should be noting how it reacts and recording it. So that would have brought up any nuisance tripping on the RCD if it happens that regularly. I don't think it can pull much current so it may not help if that is the issue.

 

It clicks and the screen goes blank. Nothing on it like it is switched off, which it is. That is whether it blows the 32 amp board or just internal. My Energi's own fitter fitted this box.
I am glad this is thrashing out a problem. If it helps others get a smoother fitting then that will be great. I know it will get solved, so don't think I am an angry poster... this is to find a resolve.
Will get pictures.

 

we fit a 40a mcb as std as any tesla plugging in ALLWAYS caused our units to trip, we standardise with 6mm cable & the onboard 32a rcbo covers the unit for overload..

 

A B32A MCB should be fine and is the type recommended by myenergi for Zappi. They are designed for and will withstand 32A all day long normally. It takes a much greater than 32A overload current to actually trip such an MCB. A 40A MCB would provide less protection against fault overload.

There is something clearly very wrong here, but based upon the descriptions given I’m finding it quite hard to follow. My guess would be a faulty B32A trip, or an intermittent short somewhere in the wiring path from that B32A MCB to the Zappi. A simple replacement of that MCB might well fix it. BG aren’t known for being great quality components. Any electrician worth his salt should be able to pinpoint and fix this issue. It is unlikely to be a faulty Zappi IMHO. It is also pretty unlikely to be a fault elsewhere in the property wiring IMO.

I see there is no RCD or RCBO device in that sub CU. So that narrows things down a good bit. Slight earth leakage would not cause that specific MCB to trip.

BTW, you keep referring to Myenergi installers? To the best of my knowledge, myenergi do not have any actual installers or field service technicians. They do however have a list of suggested installers but they are not actually myenergi employees.

Good luck, and please do report the eventual outcome. Peter

 

A B32A MCB should be fine and is the type recommended by myenergi for Zappi. They are designed for and will withstand 32A all day long normally. It takes a much greater than 32A overload current to actually trip such an MCB. A 40A MCB would provide less protection against fault overload.

There is something clearly very wrong here, but based upon the descriptions given I’m finding it quite hard to follow. My guess would be a faulty B32A trip, or an intermittent short somewhere in the wiring path from that B32A MCB to the Zappi. A simple replacement of that MCB might well fix it. BG aren’t known for being great quality components. Any electrician worth his salt should be able to pinpoint and fix this issue. It is unlikely to be a faulty Zappi IMHO. It is also pretty unlikely to be a fault elsewhere in the property wiring IMO.

I see there is no RCD or RCBO device in that sub CU. So that narrows things down a good bit. Slight earth leakage would not cause that specific MCB to trip.

BTW, you keep referring to Myenergi installers? To the best of my knowledge, myenergi do not have any actual installers or field service technicians. They do however have a list of suggested installers but they are not actually myenergi employees.

Good luck, and please do report the eventual outcome. Peter

As this was a replacement box to replace the previous one that failed it was fitted and organised by My Energi who would not allow the original installer to do it or into the program. So much so, that I was away for two weeks and the old installer had the key and access, but MyEnergi and their appointed team refused to deal with the old fitter and waited until I got back... that makes it to me, a My Energi job. How a court would see that chain of command and responsibility is one for a judge to think on, but it seems to me they took over. On the trip, do bear in mind that the wall RCB does NOT always trip, but the unit can trip internally. I guess if that trips faster the wall unit does not engage, which is the strange thing. The unit sees the problem. Infact, in more cases than not, the Zappi trips first.

 

DNO is responsible for the supply and mains fuse, but I would have expected any issues there to have surfaced elsewhere in the property before the Zappi was installed. Unless there is an issue with the mains earth.

But as has been stated a couple of times

• an EIC inspection and report will check all this and identify where there are any problems (if any).
• installers need to come back and isolate the fault, as they have left the system both not working and not necessarily safe (hence in breach of their professional standards body, whichever one they're a member of such as NAPIT)

 

Thank you all for the head-scratching. I pass it all on.

 

It is a very confusing issue. You may get more mileage on the MyEnergi forum - myenergi

I'm most surprised you say the Zappi itself turns off as it should catch the vast majority of errors and report them to the screen. I wonder if this is a wiring issue and getting short circuits somehow?

 

It is a very confusing issue. You may get more mileage on the MyEnergi forum - myenergi

I'm most surprised you say the Zappi itself turns off as it should catch the vast majority of errors and report them to the screen. I wonder if this is a wiring issue and getting short circuits somehow?

I’m interpreting the op to mean the Zappi goes off when the MCB trips. Surely Zappi doesn’t go off when MCB is still on does it? If it does, then maybe some arcing at a bad connection of the power cable into the Zappi? Once arcing starts in a circuit almost any kind of MCB or RCD, RCBO etc can trip out with the big current transients flying around.
(by Zappi going off, I mean screen goes completely blank) Peter

 

It really makes little sense. A Type B MCB should only trip at 3 (or more) times the rated current so should withstand the inrush current of a charge point. But some derate slightly when they get hot after sustained running - but that's not what is happening here. The chance of two being substandard is very unlikely.
The Zappi also tripping makes no sense unless it is for the same reason. I'm going for a strangely floating Neutral (and Earth) causing rapid current inrushes - a classic PEN fault.

 

The Zappi often blows off , clicks off, and the MCB is still on.

 

Based on Zappi going off but MCB not, that sounds very much like either PEN fault detection is triggering, or RCD-DD is with a steady increase in residual DC current.
In either case, if it is these in-built protections within the Zappi that should still be logged just before power is dropped.
I'd also make sure that the latest firmware has been installed on Zappi.

Check out this section on MyEnergi's site, dealing with recommendations to use Type B MCBs.
And this one relates to the grid limit feature.

 

The house passed the full electric test and certificate is on the way. The Zappi blew for the electrician, the original fitter who was not allowed to attend the fault by My Engergi ( who insisted to deal over the phone and online, then send their fitter with just changed the unit and couldn't get out quick enough.) The second blowing one, although it was the unit blowing, caused them to change the 32 amp MCB. After that it appears to be charging. If only My Energi had let the original fitter to come back I could have had this working 3 months ago. Strange set up. Thanks for your help everyone. Back to blogging about cruises.....