You seem to be talking about home charging. Why would I want any software involved in that (other than the car)?

 

Hi Gary. Well EO offers OLEV home chargers with the same software features as a work-place one would - at the same price as other manufacturers. Its really smart and allows you to automatically charge at low cost, off-peak periods by determining the most cost effective time. Added to this if home owners wanted to generate revenue now or in the future, you can set the price and monitor the usage all through your portal. The software also ensures EO can fix 90% of problems without having to send an engineer out - should there be any, meaning less disruption to your day.

This is all if you wanted to access it of course!

 

I have one EV today and will some day have 2. My house probably won't support 2x dedicated 32A circuits. could you design a charger which has two (or more?) outlets but automatically reduces or cycles the power output on them so everyone in the house can get a charge without going and swapping cars around?

 

Hi Edd,
At the moment to combat the issue of overload (if you have multiple chargers), a user can use the portal to set a load limit for a property. I.e. If you have 2 x 7kW chargers, but only capacity for 11kW. You can set the limit to 11kW - so when two cars are plugged in, each charger's power output reduces to 5.5kW.

The idea of a dual socket wall charger is great. Our software would work for that too. Obviously we need to get product 1 out the door first, but perhaps we have product 2?

 

Sadly my issues aren't with chargers themselves, but that of their location and availability. If you could stop other petrol cars parking in them and allow prebooking via a website/phone app so when I'm visiting somewhere beyond battery range I know I'll have guaranteed parking spot - that would be of use. All you need on top of that is to not use an RFID card and take contactless/debit card payments at the charger.

 

Yep, all this is available through eoApp. You can reserve parking bays in advance for a set time and we are staying well clear of RFID! Currently all payment is taken through the app by linking your paypal or debit / credit card but contactless is something we are working on.

 

Oh... yet another new network

 

yep we know Matt! we appreciate its not helpful having more and more but we couldn't sit by with the problems that have been holding the industry back on reliability and customer service. We are trying to open doors with other manufacturers for a universal approach none-the-less. Whats your preferred payment for public charging ? and what would you like to see implemented over the next 12 months?

 

@EOcare can you please declare you commercial interest in your signature as per forum rules. Thanks.

 

apologies Jack, was unaware, changing the signature now.

 

I like that more companies and start-ups are joining in the melee.

The more choice the better, I say.

The issue of inter-compatibility, multiple networks, confusion of offerings, etc., are things that must be solved at a central source - i.e. that should be OLEV! You can't expect competing companies to work together to reach a point where they share market. They should get as much market as they deserve, and the only way that works out is where there are plenty of offerings on a level playing field so the consumer chooses what companies deserve.

The issue is regulation and ensuring transparency in the market, and real choice, to the consumer's benefit.

 

I think a major issue at the moment is PHEV company car drivers not charging at home as their employers haven't got the systems in place to reimburse them for the electricity used correctly. Hopefully your software and apps will address this and you will be speaking to fleet managers about what a great solution it may be for them.

 

Great point Brads, yes - the software for home chargers can allow employers to see how much electricity is being used and therefore reimburse employees on company cars.

 

For home charging, we just need something simple and reliable.

I have a Rolec installed at home - basic, but it does the job. I plug in when I get home, and the car starts to charge.

I don't use off-peak charging, as we need to charge 2 cars, but both of my vehicles have in car software that can activate off-peak charging if required.

I'm not sure what "software" I would want in a home charger - just sounds like it will make it more complicated, and prone to failure (and expensive to repair).

For a work based charger, then I could see some basic record of use per user could be useful. Just a tally of KW by user would be fine, maybe activated by a RFID card (company ID pass?)

I'd be happy to share my thoughts with you - and are trying to persuade my employer to install a workplace charger - so if you would like a trial location.......



Regards
Julian

 

I don't want to get involved in any of the back office systems or have to rely on dodgy RFID or mobile phone signals in order to fuel up my vehicle.

I want to:

1. Pull into a charging station which has more than 4 (rapid) or 8 (fast) chargers minimum to ensure availability

2. Plug in and charge.

3. Continue my journey

I don't even see why I have to faff about with paying by credit or debit card, let alone with anything else:

4. Register online to a central EV charging database using the car VIN (hint: let the operators compete for my business like utilities do)

5. Chargers interrogate the car VIN when I plug in, squirt in the juice and take care of all the backend notification for billing at their own leisure, maybe even after I've gone like every other a POS sytem does.

So I never have to deal with all that unreliable comms stuff in real time on my journey and the charging network operators are highly incentivised to make sure the whole system works as it should.

So tell me what's wrong with this?

 

Personally, I think the level of adoption is such that the UK should have free level-2 charging for a few years to come, and rapids should be cheap or free. Unfortunately that would require joined-up-thinking of the type that the government aren't really capable of.

Thank you for the comments Matt, for us, achieving the contactless payment method is fundamental. Obviously implementing contactless is quite an expensive process which is not a problem when installing rapid infrastructure because the cost of the equipment is approx. £20,000 so a £500-£1000 payment method is not a problem. However, when installing level 2 type infrastructure increasing the price almost two-fold makes the solution uncompetitive. I guess it comes down to who is buying the equipment and what value they see in paying more for an interoperable solution. From your experience, have you seen any alternative solutions for level 2?

In our road-map we are introducing card payment for chargers bought in multiples; i.e 10 chargers in a row at a car park because the additional cost is spread out. Irrespective of cost there are of course hurdles we have to jump over.

 

Thank you for the comments Matt, for us, achieving the contactless payment method is fundamental. Obviously implementing contactless is quite an expensive process which is not a problem when installing rapid infrastructure because the cost of the equipment is approx. £20,000 so a £500-£1000 payment method is not a problem. However, when installing level 2 type infrastructure increasing the price almost two-fold makes the solution uncompetitive. I guess it comes down to who is buying the equipment and what value they see in paying more for an interoperable solution. From your experience, have you seen any alternative solutions for level 2?

In our road-map we are introducing card payment for chargers bought in multiples; i.e 10 chargers in a row at a car park because the additional cost is spread out. Irrespective of cost there are of course hurdles we have to jump over.

A model where charging starts on connection but you then go to the single payment point for the cluster or charging posts and it authenticates a longer charge would work, at least you only have one screen/card reader/modem to your banking provider etc.

 

I don't want to get involved in any of the back office systems or have to rely on dodgy RFID or mobile phone signals in order to fuel up my vehicle.
So tell me what's wrong with this?

This is an excellent idea, do you envisage this working with a camera / number plate recognition system? If so, it would probably be necessary to work alongside the other chargepoint manufacturers to adopt an industry standard. Perhaps we could work together with members of speak EV to design a fully interoperable system which we could rollout. Does this sound like something you would be interested in ? Obviously there will be huge challenges but im sure with the right people we can make positive steps in the right direction.

 

VIN number interrogated when the cable connects to the car as part of the handshake would be ideal but appreciate that required changes in the car (probably) - I haven't looked at the standards deeply enough to know whether they do this already and just don't use it.

ANPR would be another way to do it, although easy to spoof? VIN number from the car itself encrypted along with some unique signature analysis type of thing would be best I would have thought.

 

Please please please dont rely on having a good mobile phone signal in order to start a charge - it never works in practice

 

chargers interrogate the car VIN when I plug in

Rapids might communicate VIN but fast chargers do not share data when communicating AFAIK

 

That's a shame, but then it's the rapids which you are likely to want to use in a hurry so if they could match what the SC's do that would be a start.

What does go on between a fast charger and a car when you plug in then? I was pretty sure there was some comms protocol involved so there must become data sharing going on.

 

What does go on between a fast charger and a car when you plug in then? I was pretty sure there was some comms protocol involved so there must become data sharing going on.

What @Jack says... that is true for all J1772/Type2 chargers. You can see the spec here (SAE J1772 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) but basically a combination of resistances and PWM signals determines when the car/charger states are ready to charge and at what current. No actual data is transferred.

 

J1772 for not rapid charging is dumb, its just PLC and resistors, based on pulsed response delivers a particular current, up to the max indicated by the resistance over the signal pins.

 

Could you not have a system similar to the bank verification system where you have an account set up and when you need to charge you are txt a pin to enter into the charger to be used to 'unlock' it. This could uniquely identify the session so all is needed is basic coms with a backend system.

 

Open Charge Point Protocol (OCPP) - makes a good read if you want to know what can / can't be done. Nothin the in OCPP specs about VIN numbers, but there's the ability to send prototype/extension data via the DataTransfer message

Downloads - Open Charge Alliance

However - you aren't going to get it over the comms cable in the car as discussed previously, so the option to stick an RFID transmitter near the end of your Type 2 cable and a reciever on the charge point socket would work. In car flap is no good as how would is get to the unit - down your type 2 cable, remember public chargers are sockets not thethered.

So we are back to RFID, but just being able to plug in. Obviosuly would require everyone to have 1 RFID and allow roaming. Billing back to your own network. Hmmmn, this is looking tricky already.

 

Open Charge Point Protocol (OCPP) - makes a good read if you want to know what can / can't be done. Nothin the in OCPP specs about VIN numbers, but there's the ability to send prototype/extension data via the DataTransfer message

Downloads - Open Charge Alliance

However - you aren't going to get it over the comms cable in the car as discussed previously, so the option to stick an RFID transmitter near the end of your Type 2 cable and a reciever on the charge point socket would work. In car flap is no good as how would is get to the unit - down your type 2 cable, remember public chargers are sockets not thethered.

So we are back to RFID, but just being able to plug in. Obviosuly would require everyone to have 1 RFID and allow roaming. Billing back to your own network. Hmmmn, this is looking tricky already.

Just seen this. I had just replied to GreyDad with the same solution. How easy/difficult would it be to rally all UK manufacturers together to create 1 industry standard for payment?

 

e-clearing.net

 

e-clearing.net

Looks good. Intercharge.eu is another one. European manufacturers seem happier and more open to work together. We should take a leaf out of there book....

 

APT do a similar system has a slightly nicer UI and does SKIDATA integration so you can pay for parking and charging on same ticket

 

Clever. Have you used one before? Good?

 

I've never heard of RFID being dodgy. It just works, providing the reading hardware is reliable, and it doesn't really depend on network backhaul, unless you define some complicated billing scheme that involves pre-authenticating sessions.
Actually, RFID cards themselves are really quite robust, been through washing machines, dropped in the sea, sat on.

The problem with public charging and RFID is almost always surrounding the card issuer not publishing the card numbers on the whitelist that they have to provide to all the numerous charge point management systems, or the charge point management system not configuring the individual charge points to work with a certain set of cards, and the fact that in the UK there's no clearing house yet set up to co-ordinate this, so the drivers are fed up with having to carry a large set of different RFID cards. Nowadays, the drivers are fed up with having to maintain pre-payment or post-payment accounts with multiple charging network providers, or having multiple web sites or mobile phone applications to log into to start or end a charge.

Entirely possible to have RFID reader and system configured to work offline with a pre-defined range of card numbers (staff passes, as previously described), which would be almost ideal for workplace charging for a closed-user-group. Download kwh figures at the end of the billing period to give to the accounts department to adjust for BIK on the payroll to keep the taxman happy. Absolutely no need for an Internet, or complicated mobile VPN connection for that.

 

Hi All, Had a first hand encounter with this company ordering a home charge-point for my new Leaf. I would avoid using them in the future and I have posted about my dealings with them. hope others avoid the mistake

 

Hi Dave, can you please post link to your post where you describe your dealings with EO Chargers as I culd not find any other posts from you on this forum and actually considering installing EO charger

 

@acideraser Dave has posted twice and the last one was above coming up for two years ago now, unlikely you will see any reply from him

 

Thanks for pointing out Biffa, didnt pay attention.

Will post about my experience, albeit a brief one. Can't say anything bad but someone may find this info useful. This is my personal opinion of course.

I decided to get EO Charger, contacted several companies who advertise installing them, such as EV Chargin Solutions and EV Chargers UK but it turned out they do not install in my area and therefore recommended local electricians.

Got quotes from them which were higher then advertised installed price after OLEV grant, who advised me my installation would not be standard based on photos provided. It also appears local electricians give 12 month labour warranty, where charger warranty is 36 month. In the end decided i don't want to find myself in a situation where there is an issue with the charger say 15 month down the road where installer points to manufacturer and manufacturer to the installer so in the end booked it with the company which installs their own chargers...

So, my point is that some customers may prefer to have single point of contact for installation and maintenance...

 

Indeed, a standard install takes some beating however, it doesn’t take much to make a standard installer unattractive.

For me it was their rather inflexible approach to cable runs, effectively wanting to tack 35m of 6mm2 SWA around the outside of my house and charging an additional £400 for doing it.

I went with a local electrician and bought my unit, agreed with him to feed the cable through a small dormer void at the back of the house and though to the garage. No cables visible from outside the property except for the tethered one on the unit.

 

Sorry forgot to mention that it qualified for standard installation with the other company (not mentioning name as don't want to advertise), as both meter and charger are in the garage in the newly built extension hence all wiring is new.

They also included things like new small consumer unit connected to the meter before house CU(in case of tripping) plus said they would either use my TN-S earthing or fit rod if necessary without extra charge - things for which others wanted to charge extra circa 150-170 + VAT.

 

Hi Dave, can you please post link to your post where you describe your dealings with EO Chargers as I culd not find any other posts from you on this forum and actually considering installing EO charger

Hi acideraser

It's Charlie Jardine, Founder at EO Charging here. I hope you are well.

In terms of your home install experience, I am afraid the price advertised is very much a 'From' price. This price is based on what we and our installers refer to as a 'standard installation.' In terms of how many installs out of 10 are actually standard installations, we would expect 6 or 7. In situations where additional work is required, as you mentioned - the installer will charge more. As to why yours was not 'standard' - I am not sure without seeing the photos, but it may simply be to do with travel rather than the installation. We would need to find out from the installer.

Regards the warranty - We provide a 3-year warranty which covers parts and labour. So if anything at all goes wrong with the charger we replace the whole unit free of charge and pay the installer to do this. You should expect a new unit within 48 hours.

Lastly - DaveEV was a fake account established by one of our former employees who left two years ago. They haven't been active since!

If you have any further questions, feel free to email me on Charlie.jardine@eocharging.com

All the best,

Charlie