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This is an excellent idea, do you envisage this working with a camera / number plate recognition system? If so, it would probably be necessary to work alongside the other chargepoint manufacturers to adopt an industry standard. Perhaps we could work together with members of speak EV to design a fully interoperable system which we could rollout. Does this sound like something you would be interested in ? Obviously there will be huge challenges but im sure with the right people we can make positive steps in the right direction.
VIN number interrogated when the cable connects to the car as part of the handshake would be ideal but appreciate that required changes in the car (probably) - I haven't looked at the standards deeply enough to know whether they do this already and just don't use it.

ANPR would be another way to do it, although easy to spoof? VIN number from the car itself encrypted along with some unique signature analysis type of thing would be best I would have thought.
 

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VIN number from the car itself encrypted along with some unique signature analysis type of thing would be best I would have thought.
Its complicated though, easier to do it all in the car - like it is believed Superchargers work.

I did have another thought along these lines though, stick a RFID tag next to your charge port, and have the RFID reader in the plug, that way you can do plug and go without having to delve into adding custom bits to protocols and getting OEMs to implement the extensions.
 

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Its complicated though, easier to do it all in the car - like it is believed Superchargers work.

I did have another thought along these lines though, stick a RFID tag next to your charge port, and have the RFID reader in the plug, that way you can do plug and go without having to delve into adding custom bits to protocols and getting OEMs to implement the extensions.
Yep, that would be another way to do it - could be done by a third party and potentially retrofittable to existing charger infrastructure.
 

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That's a shame, but then it's the rapids which you are likely to want to use in a hurry so if they could match what the SC's do that would be a start.

What does go on between a fast charger and a car when you plug in then? I was pretty sure there was some comms protocol involved so there must become data sharing going on.
 

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J1772 for not rapid charging is dumb, its just PLC and resistors, based on pulsed response delivers a particular current, up to the max indicated by the resistance over the signal pins.
 

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Could you not have a system similar to the bank verification system where you have an account set up and when you need to charge you are txt a pin to enter into the charger to be used to 'unlock' it. This could uniquely identify the session so all is needed is basic coms with a backend system.
 

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What does go on between a fast charger and a car when you plug in then? I was pretty sure there was some comms protocol involved so there must become data sharing going on.
What @Jack says... that is true for all J1772/Type2 chargers. You can see the spec here (SAE J1772 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) but basically a combination of resistances and PWM signals determines when the car/charger states are ready to charge and at what current. No actual data is transferred.
 

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Open Charge Point Protocol (OCPP) - makes a good read if you want to know what can / can't be done. Nothin the in OCPP specs about VIN numbers, but there's the ability to send prototype/extension data via the DataTransfer message

Downloads - Open Charge Alliance

However - you aren't going to get it over the comms cable in the car as discussed previously, so the option to stick an RFID transmitter near the end of your Type 2 cable and a reciever on the charge point socket would work. In car flap is no good as how would is get to the unit - down your type 2 cable, remember public chargers are sockets not thethered.

So we are back to RFID, but just being able to plug in. Obviosuly would require everyone to have 1 RFID and allow roaming. Billing back to your own network. Hmmmn, this is looking tricky already.
 

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Thank you for the comments Matt, for us, achieving the contactless payment method is fundamental. Obviously implementing contactless is quite an expensive process which is not a problem when installing rapid infrastructure because the cost of the equipment is approx. £20,000 so a £500-£1000 payment method is not a problem. However, when installing level 2 type infrastructure increasing the price almost two-fold makes the solution uncompetitive. I guess it comes down to who is buying the equipment and what value they see in paying more for an interoperable solution. From your experience, have you seen any alternative solutions for level 2?

In our road-map we are introducing card payment for chargers bought in multiples; i.e 10 chargers in a row at a car park because the additional cost is spread out. Irrespective of cost there are of course hurdles we have to jump over.
A model where charging starts on connection but you then go to the single payment point for the cluster or charging posts and it authenticates a longer charge would work, at least you only have one screen/card reader/modem to your banking provider etc.
 

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A model where charging starts on connection but you then go to the single payment point for the cluster or charging posts and it authenticates a longer charge would work, at least you only have one screen/card reader/modem to your banking provider etc.
This idea works with Boris Bikes and other cities cycle hire schemes. Rather than unlocking a bike you would just tell the portal which bay you want to charge. (y)
 

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eo Charging
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Discussion Starter #32
VIN number interrogated when the cable connects to the car as part of the handshake would be ideal but appreciate that required changes in the car (probably) - I haven't looked at the standards deeply enough to know whether they do this already and just don't use it.

ANPR would be another way to do it, although easy to spoof? VIN number from the car itself encrypted along with some unique signature analysis type of thing would be best I would have thought.

The VIN number with the cable is a genius idea. If each cable had an RFID type solution i.e. a chip/sticker that you could retrofit. This way you would (i.e. the user) would be recognised by your cable. The 'chip' would link to a central billing system i.e. your debit/credit card. You could access usage on a portal, and choose the billed immediately or at the end of each month?

I guess, the challenge here is making sure your cable works on all networks? Rallying together all manufacturers is the trouble. Plus on Rapids you would still need an alternative solution. I like the ABB rapids because from my experience they seem to be the most reliable and more importantly you can pay by credit/debit. Have you come across any of these on the roads?
 

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eo Charging
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Discussion Starter #33
Open Charge Point Protocol (OCPP) - makes a good read if you want to know what can / can't be done. Nothin the in OCPP specs about VIN numbers, but there's the ability to send prototype/extension data via the DataTransfer message

Downloads - Open Charge Alliance

However - you aren't going to get it over the comms cable in the car as discussed previously, so the option to stick an RFID transmitter near the end of your Type 2 cable and a reciever on the charge point socket would work. In car flap is no good as how would is get to the unit - down your type 2 cable, remember public chargers are sockets not thethered.

So we are back to RFID, but just being able to plug in. Obviosuly would require everyone to have 1 RFID and allow roaming. Billing back to your own network. Hmmmn, this is looking tricky already.

Just seen this. I had just replied to GreyDad with the same solution. How easy/difficult would it be to rally all UK manufacturers together to create 1 industry standard for payment?
 

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eo Charging
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Discussion Starter #35
A model where charging starts on connection but you then go to the single payment point for the cluster or charging posts and it authenticates a longer charge would work, at least you only have one screen/card reader/modem to your banking provider etc.
Have you seen this from Rolec? EV: PayCentre | EV Charging | Rolecserv

Thoughts? We have been doing some talking with Ingenico about developing something similar. Our thoughts are that it would be great for car park type locations where there are 10+ chargers in a bank. You would be able to pay by card and select the appropriate charger... Worth exploring further?
 

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Have you seen this from Rolec? EV: PayCentre | EV Charging | Rolecserv

Thoughts? We have been doing some talking with Ingenico about developing something similar. Our thoughts are that it would be great for car park type locations where there are 10+ chargers in a bank. You would be able to pay by card and select the appropriate charger... Worth exploring further?
Yes, PROVIDED it starts charging immediately (and will run for say 10 mins) and you then pay for the longer session. It would be absolutely rubbish to plug in, walk to the pay meter, pay, go back to the car to check it was actually charging, and then go on your way.
 
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